how come RWD SR+ drift and fish tail a bit while driving in straight line on HWY speed on snow day?

[coolmanfever]

Hello all,

Model 3 SR+ is my first RWD car. I have snow tire for my SR+. But yesterday while driving on HWY straight line on a snowy and icy road, it just drift and fish tail a bit almost out of my driving lane. I was driving around 56 mph. Good thing that there is no other cars around but it was a surprise experience. Anyone had similar experience? Is it because torque of RWD is all coming from the rear wheel so it may slip when road is icy? Wondering what is best way to avoid this experience in the future. Thank you.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Get snow tires to drive in snow. The stock all seasons are mediocre for snow. If you want to replace them with other all-seasons, consider Michelin CrossClimate2(assuming they are made in the right size for the 3.

 

[coolmanfever]

i do have nokian hakkapeliitta r3 snow tires and it still drift

 

[Heckraiser]

Were you accelerating or decelerating at the time of the fishtail? With the RWD models, it's important to switch regenerative braking to "low" in snowy or icy conditions, otherwise letting up on the accelerator pedal will break traction in the rear.

If you were accelerating, then you were just giving it too much beans for the road conditions.

If you were neither accelerating or decelerating, then the road must have been slicker than snot with a good crown to it in order to overcome your Hakka's. That's the best snow tire on the market, IMO.

I drive my RWD SR+ year round and in the mountains with Nokian Encompass (a major step down from your Hakkapelitas) and it generally behaves itself as well as any other RWD car as long as you switch brake regen to "low"

 

[jjrandorin]

Were you accelerating or decelerating at the time of the fishtail? With the RWD models, it's important to switch regenerative braking to "low" in snowy or icy conditions, otherwise letting up on the accelerator pedal will break traction in the rear.

I am reasonably certain that the option to reduce regen was removed from the tesla interface for teslas newer than a certain point. I dont remember when that was but I could search here on TMC and find it. There has been quite a bit of discussion about it in threads here, and it normally pops up every winter in threads like these.

I dont know if @coolmanfever has the low option in regen, to be able to follow that advice.

 

[Heckraiser]

Did not know that. That would be a bummer!

 

[XPsionic]

Hello all,

Model 3 SR+ is my first RWD car. I have snow tire for my SR+. But yesterday while driving on HWY straight line on a snowy and icy road, it just drift and fish tail a bit almost out of my driving lane. I was driving around 56 mph. Good thing that there is no other cars around but it was a surprise experience. Anyone had similar experience? Is it because torque of RWD is all coming from the rear wheel so it may slip when road is icy? Wondering what is best way to avoid this experience in the future. Thank you.

I've driven for 20+ years with RWD cars in northern Alberta, and currently have a SR+ but it's in LA, so no snow experience with it unfortunately. From my experience, RWD + snow tires definitely can feel a bit squirrely when it's really icy out on the highways. But in my Porsche RWD and BMW M3 RWD, the traction control and stability control kicks in extremely quickly and I've never felt like I'd drift more than a foot at most even when it's super icy out. Not sure how well the Model 3 SR's traction and stability control works, but I assume it'd be on par or better than my older gas cars.

My advice to you is to make sure you use neutral accelerator pressure (neither speeding up or slowing down) whenever you see any snow build up in between lanes if you're changing lanes. Anything more than 2" deep in between lanes will tend to pull the car one way or the other, it's especially noticeable in a RWD car with open differential, like the Model 3 SR. If you have to change lanes and there's deeper snow that you need to cross, very gently slow down just a touch and try not to linger on the snowy parts. Also if it's super icy on the well travelled part of the lane, it's often a bit more stable to drive slightly off to the side of the lane that's snow covered, but ONLY IF the snow covered part is hard packed and not fluffy or deep.

In theory and in my experience, as long as you keep a very steady foot and steady steering, and you don't ask the tires to do more than one thing at a time (steering, braking, accelerating, pick one!), it'll be alright. It's quite natural to feel some instability in a RWD car on snow and ice, and modern traction and stability control will, in almost all cases, prevent you from actually spinning out.

 

[MountainPass]

Even with quality snow tires and modern driver assists, these cars are still bound by the laws of physics! The real issue here might be driving 56mph on a snowy and icy road. If it is that bad, your stopping distances will be surprisingly long and no reaction time will prevent you from crashing into a stopped vehicle or someone else who loses control.

 

[KenC]

Hello all,

Model 3 SR+ is my first RWD car. I have snow tire for my SR+. But yesterday while driving on HWY straight line on a snowy and icy road, it just drift and fish tail a bit almost out of my driving lane. I was driving around 56 mph. Good thing that there is no other cars around but it was a surprise experience. Anyone had similar experience? Is it because torque of RWD is all coming from the rear wheel so it may slip when road is icy? Wondering what is best way to avoid this experience in the future. Thank you

First, what's your experience driving in snow? The reason I ask, is, a snowy and icy road at 56mph is never an easy drive. People have been driving RWD cars for decades in snow with snow tires. Still, you have to drive slower, and continuously assess the traction of the surface.

If it's really cold, the surface may actually be easy to drive on and very predictable. If it's an intermediate temperature, where the surface has become a little slushy or there are tracks in the snow where vehicles in front of you have driven, then driving can be squirrelly. If you drive in the tracks of vehicles, but aren't careful, when you deviate out of the track, your car can become squirrelly and pull to the side where you've hit some smushy snow.

Personally, if the driving is at all squirrelly, you should drive slower, and stay to the right. I tend to drive ON the snow, and out of the tracks of other vehicles, when it becomes squirrelly like that. The snow is far more predictable, strangely enough.

 

[KenC]

Did not know that. That would be a bummer!

My understanding is that testing has shown that regen is reduced after slippery surface is detected. So, after the first instance of slip, the regen automagically becomes low. Bjorn the YouTuber has a video showing SMT and how the regen reduces.

 

[coolmanfever]

thanks for all the advices. SR+ is my first rwd car so I guess I am still learning how to drive rwd in snow.

"If it's an intermediate temperature, where the surface has become a little slushy or there are tracks in the snow where vehicles in front of you have driven, then driving can be squirrelly. If you drive in the tracks of vehicles, but aren't careful, when you deviate out of the track, your car can become squirrelly and pull to the side where you've hit some smushy snow"

I think this is exactly what happened. A slush of snow probably push me out of track.

So far I have been driving with standard regen braking. Next time, I will try low regen braking in snow. I have 2020 model so low regen braking option.

 

[brkaus]

Welcome to rear wheel drive.

 

[Heckraiser]

RWD in the snow is fun. Millions of Swedes and Germans cant be wrong! My first car was a 403ci 4bbl Olds and my second car was a supra turbo. Both did full time DD duty in Colorado winters

 

[thesmokingman]

I'm more shocked that one doesn't know what rwd is or about the nature of rwd?

 

[brkaus]

I'm more shocked that one doesn't know what rwd is or about the nature of rwd?

I learned the hard way too. Many years back before all this traction control. Practice. Practice. Practice.

 

[KenC]

RWD in the snow is fun. Millions of Swedes and Germans cant be wrong! My first car was a 403ci 4bbl Olds and my second car was a supra turbo. Both did full time DD duty in Colorado winters

Speaking of, I always tell my nephews and niece to drive around an empty parking lot, after the first snow, and when it hasn't been plowed. You need to remind yourself how to drive in snow, and really push it. Like the two gifs show, you need to get a feel of how to throttle steer around a turn.

 

[thesmokingman]

I learned the hard way too. Many years back before all this traction control. Practice. Practice. Practice.

And it's fun, granted in the right circumstances.

 

[gearchruncher]

Like the two gifs show, you need to get a feel of how to throttle steer around a turn.

In a modern car with really great stability and traction control that cannot be disabled, how exactly do you do this?
People think their car looks like this when they are driving it and it gets a touch slippery, but if you saw it from the outside you'd hardly even notice. When you actually drive like this, you're looking out the side windows.

 

[Randy-12]

With the new cars Regen can’t be changed to low.

Chances are you started to slip while using Regen.

Yesterday was my first drive in snow with this car. When using aggressive Regen the arse of the car fishtailed back and forth maybe a half foot~ 1 foot to each side then traction control took over. No biggie just need to be aware of it.

I tried hitting the brakes hard and went in a straight line, tried pounding the accelerator and the car acted like it was in chill mode till it had proper traction.

All in all a positive first experience with this car. My last RWD was in the early 80’s unless you count pick up truck and they are horrible in snow.

 

[Shelburne]

RWD in the snow is fun. Millions of Swedes and Germans cant be wrong! My first car was a 403ci 4bbl Olds and my second car was a supra turbo. Both did full time DD duty in Colorado winters

RWD is, indeed, fun in the snow, but only on a road with no traffic. RWD is no fun on busy urban and suburban roads and on interstates that have even just moderate traffic. You know, the kind of roads where you can't drift, fishtail or skid around like the cars on those videos.