How do we know what HW version is in our 2023 Model Y and why doesn't it explicitly say it has EAP, which we bought?

[Dracaris]

We have a new 2023 Model Y built in 09/23 in Fremont. As we're looking at the software stack, currently 2023.27.7, and the commentary here we often see people refer to the computer in the vehicle as HW3, HW4, etc. Our car doesn't say anything about that. Instead, it just says "Autopilot computer: Full self-driving Computer." So, do we have HW3 or HW4? We definitely don't have radar, so at least that's understood.

Also on the software page in our car it says we have FSD capability which expires on Jan 13, 2024. It says nothing about EAP, which is what we bought. So, we're confused about why our car seems to be on what is referred to as the early release branch for FSD (2023.27.7 / 11.4.7.3) vs. what folks refer to as the main branch, with a higher 2023.x.y number than we have. We neither bought nor intend to buy FSD, but we did buy EAP for lane changes and navigate from entrance to exit. We would like to have gotten summon, autopark, etc., but found out after the sale that those features are dead...at least for now. (sigh). So what changes when our FSD access expires on 1/14/2024? Do we switch over to EAP, or does something else happen?

Thanks in advance for any insights folks here can share with us.

 

[Supcom]

If you purchased EAP, then, when your FSD trial subscription expires, your car should revert to EAP. Perhaps you can see that you have EAP in the Upgrades section of the Tesla App, or on the Upgrades tab on your car's display.

 

[Dracaris]

Thanks for that. Car's display says nothing about EAP per-se, though we have been able to use EAP-like features despite repeatedly declining to accept their invitation to participate in the FSD beta. There's a little "button" we can press on the navigation screen widget (the one that allows you to edit/exit navagation) that enables what looks to us like it might be EAP. When that's active and we get on a limited access highway as part of the route, it takes over and acts as if FSD is in charge. Since they never mention EAP anywhere, we thought maybe Tesla was just tossing in a little FSD spice despite our "no thanks" response to the FSD beta.

The double blue line for Autopilot becomes a single line, it likes to change lanes to get farther away from traffic cones, and if we signal a lane change to go around a slow vehicle it will do that. Oh, and our car sees and wants to stop at every traffic light and stop sign, which is new for us compared to our Model 3 with basic AP. Also, on the upgrades page FSD subscription is only $99/mo, so I think these are all tells showing that Tesla knows we're an EAP owner vs. just a baseline AP owner.

We were just uneasy because they don't talk about EAP anywhere in the car or in the App, and thought maybe it was just some FSD sauce that might stop working when they end the offer of an FSD beta in January. So, we'll just assume they know we're paid up EAP customers and wait until the FSD beta offer expires to see what it does. We should have watched a YT video!

Still wondering how we tell what hardware platform we have in the car with these references to HW3 / HW4, etc.

 

[ucmndd]

Still wondering how we tell what hardware platform we have in the car with these references to HW3 / HW4, etc.

Pretty simple, every Model Y made since ~June has HW4.

 

[Dracaris]

Thanks! We had no idea.

 

[Supcom]

Thanks for that. Car's display says nothing about EAP per-se, though we have been able to use EAP-like features despite repeatedly declining to accept their invitation to participate in the FSD beta. There's a little "button" we can press on the navigation screen widget (the one that allows you to edit/exit navagation) that enables what looks to us like it might be EAP. When that's active and we get on a limited access highway as part of the route, it takes over and acts as if FSD is in charge. Since they never mention EAP anywhere, we thought maybe Tesla was just tossing in a little FSD spice despite our "no thanks" response to the FSD beta.

The double blue line for Autopilot becomes a single line, it likes to change lanes to get farther away from traffic cones, and if we signal a lane change to go around a slow vehicle it will do that. Oh, and our car sees and wants to stop at every traffic light and stop sign, which is new for us compared to our Model 3 with basic AP. Also, on the upgrades page FSD subscription is only $99/mo, so I think these are all tells showing that Tesla knows we're an EAP owner vs. just a baseline AP owner.

We were just uneasy because they don't talk about EAP anywhere in the car or in the App, and thought maybe it was just some FSD sauce that might stop working when they end the offer of an FSD beta in January. So, we'll just assume they know we're paid up EAP customers and wait until the FSD beta offer expires to see what it does. We should have watched a YT video!

Still wondering how we tell what hardware platform we have in the car with these references to HW3 / HW4, etc.

If you have declined FSD beta, then, when you are on a limited access highway, you are using the old Navigate on Autopilot that is part of the EAP software that you purchased. If you accept the FSD beta then you would use FSD beta on highways.

You should not enable FSD beta because you will find it works so much better than the old NOA that you will be upset when your trial subscription lapses.

 

[gsmith123]

Our car doesn't say anything about that. Instead, it just says "Autopilot computer: Full self-driving Computer." So, do we have HW3 or HW4?

Yeah, the in car specs page is super unhelpful for differentiating HW3 vs 4.

Somewhere down in the settings there's a camera preview page. If you have 3 forward facing cameras it's HW3 while 2 cameras is HW4.

HW4 has higher resolution dashcam footage.

You could also share some high quality pictures of either the repeater or forward camera assemblies and someone here can probably visually distinguish HW4.

 

[Dracaris]

If you have declined FSD beta, then, when you are on a limited access highway, you are using the old Navigate on Autopilot that is part of the EAP software that you purchased. If you accept the FSD beta then you would use FSD beta on highways.

You should not enable FSD beta because you will find it works so much better than the old NOA that you will be upset when your trial subscription lapses.

Thanks for that info! Ha, thanks also for the cautionary note regarding FSD vs. EAP.

Yeah, the in car specs page is super unhelpful for differentiating HW3 vs 4.

Somewhere down in the settings there's a camera preview page. If you have 3 forward facing cameras it's HW3 while 2 cameras is HW4.

HW4 has higher resolution dashcam footage.

You could also share some high quality pictures of either the repeater or forward camera assemblies and someone here can probably visually distinguish HW4.

I'm not able to find that camera preview page, but we have definitely noticed that the video from the cameras in our Model Y seem far higher quality than the cameras in the 2021 Model 3 we used to have. Tomorrow I'll yank out the thumb drive and review video footage to see how many cameras it's recording. Thanks!

 

[phxazcraig]

What software version are you running? My MYP, delivered Aug 23rd, did not come with FSD, even though I was supposed to get 3 months free trial. Well, eventually I got a software update (2023.32.4) that included FSD. Pretty sure that meant I had HW4, but the FSD software wasn't ready for it. Then, a few weeks after I had been testing FSD beta (11.4.4), I got a message telling me that my trial time had started. It will expire Dec 26, and I wonder if that date wasn't an accident.

 

[gsmith123]

Tomorrow I'll yank out the thumb drive and review video footage to see how many cameras it's recording

Only 4 record for dashcam, that hasn’t changed.

 

[MidBaz]

Pretty simple, every Model Y made since ~June has HW4.

I'm not sure that's true. I collected my MYP mid-Sept and I'm pretty sure its on HW3. Maybe you mean 'every Model Y made in the US since ~ June has HW4'? Mine was a Shanghai build.

 

[Dracaris]

What software version are you running? My MYP, delivered Aug 23rd, did not come with FSD, even though I was supposed to get 3 months free trial. Well, eventually I got a software update (2023.32.4) that included FSD. Pretty sure that meant I had HW4, but the FSD software wasn't ready for it. Then, a few weeks after I had been testing FSD beta (11.4.4), I got a message telling me that my trial time had started. It will expire Dec 26, and I wonder if that date wasn't an accident.

After a recent update (our second since buying the car), we're currently running 2023.27.7 which has FSD Beta 11.4.7.3. The FSD Beta software downloaded with our first update, which happened within a day or two of bringing the car home.

Only 4 record for dashcam, that hasn’t changed.

Thanks, didn't know that either. What we don't know is clearly a lot, but in our defense, none of this seems to be documented anywhere. That said, our camera lenses in the pillars have a crazy red tint to them. I read somewhere that might be a tell for having HW4? Our car was built in Fremont, btw.

Oh, as an added bonus, now the car has started periodically popping an alert, "APP_w348 Autopilot features may be limited or unavailable - Schedule service for camera software update." This alert has come and gone twice so far. We have warranty service (for some minor body stuff found during delivery) in a couple of weeks anyway, so I've messaged them asking them to either try and resolve this remotely or deal with it when we come in. Hey, on the bright side, after they twiddle the cameras maybe our automatic wipers will actually work!

 

[ucmndd]

Maybe you mean 'every Model Y made in the US since ~ June has HW4'? Mine was a Shanghai build.

Yes, fair enough. I meant cars from Fremont or Austin. I’m not sure about Shanghai.

 

[Dracaris]

BTW, Tesla service has now formally agreed to check / update firmware for all cameras in the car at our upcoming warranty service visit. Hopefully, that will assist the car in seeing better.

 

[ATPMSD]

Look at the cameras, if you see a red-dot in the center you have HW4.

or by VIN

• Fremont Model Y Builds - VIN F789400 or higher
• Austin Model Y Builds - VIN A130120 or higher

 

[gsmith123]

Thanks, didn't know that either. What we don't know is clearly a lot, but in our defense, none of this seems to be documented anywhere.

Indeed it's not, Tesla is intentionally very secretive about technical details.

For instance if you look around Tesla's website they don't have any info (at least that I could see) about:

- which cars currently have HW3 vs HW4 [Model 3 has HW3, others have HW4, at least in the US]
- what exactly the differences are between HW 3 & 4 and what impact it has today
- which cars currently have radar [S & X do]
- which cars currently support auto-park and smart summon [none, I believe, until they release a vision only version]


(It gets a lot more confusing if you're looking at used cars and trying to figure out the actual specs)

They rely completely on people either not caring, or on the community to fill in the details about what cars have what hardware, what it matters for, etc.

Another pet peeve of mine is there's no published charge curve for DC fast charging and this is the most important metric for road tripping. Most other manufacturers don't share this either tho.

 

[Dracaris]

Thanks for this, ATPMSD and gsmith123.

Our pillar cameras do indeed have that red dot in them. Quiet noticeable, almost thought it was an LED!

Tesla Service, with whom I seem to be having a running conversation about our upcoming warranty service appointment, confirmed that we have HW4 in our Fremont-built 2023 Model Y, which was assembled in 9/2023. They have also agreed to check / update the firmware in all the cameras on the car as part of that visit. Gotta say, the service team has generally been responsive, helpful, and kind in their messages regarding our upcoming service and what they will address when we take it in.

We'd also love to see in the documentation all the things gsmith123 called out above. When we took our 2021 Model 3P on a 2400 mile round trip up and down I-5, we did find that superchargers slow down significantly once the car hits 80% so we generally stopped there, though, yeah, no published curve, so no real idea of the optimal choice. OTOH, not a single supercharger was current limited and not a single one was busted / offline, though one did stop charging during a particularly aggressive thunderstorm in NJ with lightning and thunder coming less than one second apart. Flash!!Boom!! The charger stopped. Probably the right decision, haha. Anyway, it was great road trip experience.

 

[TresLA]

Thanks for this, ATPMSD and gsmith123.

Our pillar cameras do indeed have that red dot in them. Quiet noticeable, almost thought it was an LED!

Tesla Service, with whom I seem to be having a running conversation about our upcoming warranty service appointment, confirmed that we have HW4 in our Fremont-built 2023 Model Y, which was assembled in 9/2023. They have also agreed to check / update the firmware in all the cameras on the car as part of that visit. Gotta say, the service team has generally been responsive, helpful, and kind in their messages regarding our upcoming service and what they will address when we take it in.

We'd also love to see in the documentation all the things gsmith123 called out above. When we took our 2021 Model 3P on a 2400 mile round trip up and down I-5, we did find that superchargers slow down significantly once the car hits 80% so we generally stopped there, though, yeah, no published curve, so no real idea of the optimal choice. OTOH, not a single supercharger was current limited and not a single one was busted / offline, though one did stop charging during a particularly aggressive thunderstorm in NJ with lightning and thunder coming less than one second apart. Flash!!Boom!! The charger stopped. Probably the right decision, haha. Anyway, it was great road trip experience.

A few notes:
• By “pillar cameras”, I’m guessing you mean “fender cameras”? We don’t have access to pillar camera footage/recordings.
• Charging curves have always slowed significantly after 80% SoC. That’s why manufacturers advertisement of fast charging times use 80% at the top end of that spec listing.
• So far, HW4 supposedly has no advantage (and even a disadvantage) according to Musk, because it’s too new and data collection is king for these automation functions.
• EAP is a collection of features, similar to FSD Capability package. You choose which “package” of features to pay for when ordering your vehicle (or adding an upgrade). It’s not a feature in and of itself like NoAP, but includes features like NoAP. This is an old post/chart but clearly defined what was included and what wasn’t for EAP at that time compared to before: EAP vs FSD upgrade
Anyhow, my point being to look on your purchase docs or online account where the AP package would be listed. It should show EAP (where others would see FSD Capability), as opposed to looking where others (and you during your trial) would see FSD beta.

 

[Dracaris]

Thanks! When I say "pillar cameras" I mean that when I stand outside the car and look at those camera lenses, I see that red glint in them. Not asserting they are recorded because I didn't know, and thanks for clearing up that question before I yank out the thumb drive to see what's on it. Sounds like all I get is the windshield camera, the two side fender cameras, and the rear camera. Too bad, it'd be fun to be able to look at what each camera on the car is seeing at any given moment in time. Not absolutely necessary, just fun and interesting.

Ironically, with all these cameras and Tesla Vision, it should be pretty easy for Tesla to provide a 360 degree view of the car on the console, like so many other cars in its class. Even the Hundai Ioniq5 has that. Ioniq 5's implementation is a little odd because it shows some strange artifacts as the view moves from the front camera to the side cameras, but it still counts as a 360 view.

 

[JulienW]

A few notes:
• By “pillar cameras”, I’m guessing you mean “fender cameras”? We don’t have access to pillar camera footage/recordings.....

We can see the view of all the cameras in the Service menu.