-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
How is it Possible my 2023 MYLR Trade in value is so low?
- Thread starter GDub
- Start date
Musk is “All About lowering the cost of EVs to accelerate the switch to sustainable energy “. If you think otherwise, you haven’t been paying attention.
tradosaurus
Member
Drove a 2005 Lexus LS430 for a few years and loved it. Test drove a Mercedes S class last year and it was silky smooth but the price, reliability, and functionality of the Tesla Y blows the Lexus and Mercedes out of the water.Love my Lexus
Almost 20 years later a clean Lexus LS430 is worth about 12-15K and can go strong another 10+ years, while the Model Y will most likely need a $20K battery after Ten years to keep going, and be worth less then the battery price.
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
Except you've paid more than the initial price of the Lexus LS430 on gas, oil and maintenance by 2-3x at the 10-year-mark. Not to mention that that Lexus gets slower and less efficient month after month and has literally hundreds of moving parts that wear at all times, any one of which failing can leave you stranded.Almost 20 years later a clean Lexus LS430 is worth about 12-15K and can go strong another 10+ years, while the Model Y will most likely need a $20K battery after Ten years to keep going, and be worth less then the battery price.
Hell, we've saved nearly six figures in gas and oil changes alone in the last 7 years since going to EVs and we don't even drive very much. The other maintenance is a little bit more difficult to track but it's 100% there as I'm the one who used to maintain our ICE cars. The time saved alone from not worrying about that stuff is incredible. I haven't been to a gas station or auto parts store in 7 years. SO much time saved and the money is just icing on the cake.
This comparison people use to full battery replacement is just silly. You're the same person that takes your Lexus LS430 into a dealership when it's 10 years old and pays $20k for a brand new factory fresh engine? Of course not, you buy something rebuilt or from a salvage yard or something for a fraction of the price to keep the car on the road. It's the same story w/EVs with all sorts of battery pack repair options popping up for $4-$5k and that price will only get better as more and more shops open up.
Face it, this whole ICE vs. EV for commuter transportation conversation has long since been settled. Tesla has already proven that EVs can be superior in every metric we use to measure cars. There's just a few people who can't comprehend basic principles still arguing that it's even a debate still. Clinging to one or two outlier advantages (or even making them up, as you've done here) is an exercise in futility at this point.
tradosaurus
Member
Some car reviewers have stated the LS430 from 2005-2007 was the best ICE car made ever! I believe them .Almost 20 years later a clean Lexus LS430 is worth about 12-15K and can go strong another 10+ years, while the Model Y will most likely need a $20K battery after Ten years to keep going, and be worth less then the battery price.
We bought the LS430 used, 10 yrs old with 110,000. Gave it to my daughter a few years ago and it has 280K miles and still going.
Does need a timing belt job completed every 100,000 miles ($2k-$3k).
Many factors yielding that value:
1. It’s the wholesale number which is the only level you will get selling to Tesla or a dealer. If you want the max, you need to do a private sale, but with private sale the IRA $4K and any state incentive won’t be available to your buyer so you’ll need to subtract those numbers.
$X retail number less Fed and state tax credits
Def promote thst the vehicle is still under all warranty protection
2. The EV market is horrible right now due to the adoption S curve is now with the mainstream population who, due to false FUD related to Tesla ownership, is saying yes to PHEVs and no to EVs.
3. Affecting potential Tesla buyers, Elon and anything Tesla rubs some of this mainstream population in a negative way.
Right now the thing to do is:
Keep your Tesla, as it should be or why did you buy it
Suck it up, sell and move to your next vehicle
I’m in rhe same boat with my MYP, bought at almost the peak back in 2022
Good luck
10 years from now if you need a new battery, it will be cheaper, and your old battery will have substantial trade in or resale value to a recycler. Salvage value is already high.
Tha_Ape
Active Member
A 2yr old Ferrari costs drastically less than a new one.
Also, a first year Tesla Roadster will fetch a pretty good penny.
It's all about scarcity. There are a million Model Ys out there, they're going to have a very stable value, whether it's low or not. They're a dime a dozen
E90alex
Active Member
Not really. Exotics hold their value fairly well.
2024 Ferrari Roma starting MSRP $243k
Cheapest Roma on cars.com in the US with no accident history is $210k.
~14% depreciation is in 3 years is not “drastically less”. And that’s for the cheapest, most common, least desirable Ferrari. More desirable models will have even less depreciation and the rarest ones will command more than MSRP.
Compared to my 2022 Model 3 that lost 55% of its value in 2 years….
The point is that the Lexus LS430 is commonly a 500K+ mile car, you won’t need to replace the engine when it’s 10 years old. My buddy used one for a mobile notary and document delivery business, last I knew it was at 580,000 miles and that was in 2020. He’d done typical maintenance and an alternator that failed, nothing major.
I’m a fan of EV’s, but I don’t blindly believe that they can be “superior in every metric we use to measure cars”. They are certainly great, and work for many people. With the cost of power in MA at 39 cents per kWh the EV doesn’t have any fuel cost advantages over an ICE vehicle, and with the winter range loss it will cost more to charge than gasoline. Fortunately I spent the money to put 36 panels of solar on my home so I can charge off prepaid power. Distance and geography can also present challenges. My last long range commuting job was sometimes 300 miles per day living in the mountains of Northern AZ, not many places to charge and very rural if you got stuck. My benchmark was could I make it from home to the jobsite and back without charging, back in 2018 the answer was no so I found a Passat TDI that could run 700 miles per tank at a much lower cost per mile than a Model 3 at the time.
theres not much point to comparing a mass volume passenger car to low volume sports and luxury cars. low volume means the price is more volatile, because change in sentiment can have a bigger swing on prices.
the 'normal' low volume models like ferrari 360, 430, and to less a lesser extent porsche 996, can be abandoned in consumer interest, and later 'rediscovered' and rise in price. bentley and lotus seem to go only one way, which is steeply down. ultra-low-volume / limited edition cars often gain value in nominal terms. you can tell early on because they already get pre-sold at above msrp.
volume passenger cars, including tesla, follow a common depreciation curve which is initially steep, and then moderate. what happened in the last few years was the economy-wide supply shock that sent all prices sharply upwards, particularly with EVs. if you bought at that peak, obviously your personal depreciation is really high. if you bought at late 2019, like me, your 5Y depreciation now is exactly where you would have expected it to be. (for ref a 3LR was $48k)...and if had had sold in 2021 or 2022 you may have even made a profit. price swings work both ways.
its the market, its not musk.
the 'normal' low volume models like ferrari 360, 430, and to less a lesser extent porsche 996, can be abandoned in consumer interest, and later 'rediscovered' and rise in price. bentley and lotus seem to go only one way, which is steeply down. ultra-low-volume / limited edition cars often gain value in nominal terms. you can tell early on because they already get pre-sold at above msrp.
volume passenger cars, including tesla, follow a common depreciation curve which is initially steep, and then moderate. what happened in the last few years was the economy-wide supply shock that sent all prices sharply upwards, particularly with EVs. if you bought at that peak, obviously your personal depreciation is really high. if you bought at late 2019, like me, your 5Y depreciation now is exactly where you would have expected it to be. (for ref a 3LR was $48k)...and if had had sold in 2021 or 2022 you may have even made a profit. price swings work both ways.
its the market, its not musk.
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
This urban legend that Teslas are less efficient in the winter months needs to end because it completely leaves out the simple fact that ICE cars suck too, equally.
ICE cars are JUST as inefficient in the winter months than EVs, if not more. I know this because I'm a big data nerd and I've spreadsheet my cars going back decades to monitor MPG at each fill up. Across the board, ICE vehicles of all types (from economy to high horsepower monsters) tend to get 20-25% less efficiency in the winter months. This can be attributed to idling more to warm them up, higher levels of ethanol in the fuel or just the fact that machinery of all types generally hates cold temps.
That 20-25% less efficient in the winter months figure for ICE cars seems oddly similar to Teslas. As in, identical. This false narrative needs to die.
The point here is that people need to stop parroting this BS that EVs (especially Teslas) are poor winter cars. From an efficiency-loss-standpoint they're equal if not better. For arguments sake, we'll call it equal. I find it so comical that those who defend ICE technology want to discuss absolute efficiency in the winter months while ignoring the larger data point that EVs are capable of converting over 90% of their energy into forward momentum while even the most efficient ICE cars can only convert 20% of their energy into forward momentum, year-round. But yeah... tell me again how EVs are so bad 3 months out of the year. lol
Side note: even if EVs got 80% less range in the winter months... I'd own nothing else. Instant heat w/o waiting 15 minutes for an engine to warm to even begin creating heat is a game changer.
It's also humorous how those who defend ICE vehemently will act like a car that gets 700 miles per tank at all costs and sacrifices is somehow an important thing to own. It's not. Nobody ever uses that. Ever. Acting like this one-off random case somehow applies to all car owners to make your point only serves to prove how absurd buying a car based on that outlier really is. It's like someone owning a Peterbilt for their daily commute just because they may need to haul 50,000lbs of frozen chicken nuggies, one day. That's w/o even having to get into your claim that that trip isn't something you can do in an EV.
As to cost, I've said it for half a dozen years now: Teslas are the best vehicles I've ever driven. Full stop. If they cost 10x more to operate I'd still drive one. The kicker is they don't and in most cases are actually FAR less expensive to operate. I also find it strangely odd that you own a car that can run off of sunshine and even have the infrastructure to do so and yet you still complain about the per-kWh-price from your local utility.
It's hard to take your posts as being unbiased when you make some pretty aggressive claims that are factually incorrect. You bring up the battery replacement as if the sticker shock is unbearable but conveniently leave out total cost of ownership over that same time period. If money is truly a factor you can't cherry pick things that support your stance. You have to look at ALL costs associated with ownership. When you do that over your fictional million mile car that nobody ever owns... EVs wins. The actual data is not debatable either. Your opinion doesn't apply to data.
Enjoy that 20-year old Lexus though. My friend has horses they love to ride to but I wouldn't want to experience riding one daily in the winter in Colorado.
Last edited:
I’ve never seen a 20-25% MPG loss in the winter on any ICE vehicle I’ve owned, and have the Fuelly records from several personal cars to prove it. I also manage a large fleet of vehicles, my data from Wex with a sample size of 100+ also doesn’t support your assertion. I would believe a 5-10% decrease, but once again you’re exaggerating to make your point.
I owned a 2022 Ford Lightning Pro with the radiant heater, winter range diminished significantly and if you took the recommended daily preheating into account the kWh per mile dropped to pitiful levels. Not being able to confidently make a 140 mile round trip to the office in the winter was unacceptable. Burning an additional 20 kWh to preheat in the morning was unacceptable.
I used to drive 40K miles per year for work, yes having a vehicle that got 700 miles per tank and 41 lifetime MPG was a significant time and money saver. The cost per mile to drive my Passat TDI 6MT 100K miles was 28.5 cents per mile. The estimated numbers on the Model 3 at the time was 47 cents per mile. Additional data point, a Camry Hybrid was 34 cents per mile. Charging infrastructure wasn’t what it is today in 2018, AZ and NM were a charging desert off the major highways. I was routinely driving Flagstaff to Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Roswell, Tucson, Yuma, Lake Havasu City, Las Vegas, etc. Getting to Phoenix and back wasn’t an issue for charging, but having to stop and charge for an estimated 25 minutes to make it home didn’t sound appealing. Most of these drives are high speeds, significant elevation changes, and extreme heat in the summer. The old Tesla range calculator was showing under 190 miles at 80 mph and 110 degrees. I wouldn’t consider an EV today for those same drives, but I live in MA now where distances, elevation, and weather aren’t as extreme. I can only judge things from my personal experience, whether or not you think it’s an absurd outlier isn’t my problem. I’m not defending ICE over EV, just suggesting that they each have their strengths and weaknesses.
I just had 36 panels of solar installed in January 2024, so all my previous EV experience was paying 37-42 cents per kWh from my local utility. My solar has a lifetime cost of 16.5 cents per kWh. My first month of production exported 476 kWh back into the grid to be used later. The solar is not without additional cost, I spent an additional $20K for additional capacity beyond what the house required to support future EV usage. I bought my system outright, after writing that check I’ll still complain about the cost of power from the utility for a while longer. The system cost more than the MYLR.
You’re attributing things to me that I didn’t argue, like battery replacement cost. I did mention that a specific ICE vehicle with legendary reliability likely won’t need an engine within a set period of miles. I posted ICE cost to operate numbers that are very generous to the EV side, so you suggesting my numbers are erroneous is incorrect. I didn’t bother factoring in similar costs like tires, because they are approximately equal between the two vehicles.
Comparing my previous 2022 Ford Lightning Pro to my 2021 Chevy Silverado 1500 LT diesel at 28 mpg, the real cost numbers didn’t favor the EV. I was spending $150 more per month to charge the EV truck at home than I was putting diesel in the ICE. The range on the standard battery Lightning was poor at about 200 miles max from 100% to 0% on the highway at 70 mph. I realize it’s not a Tesla product, but it is once again my personal experience owning an EV.
Try to break out of your little bubble and look at things objectively. I didn’t suggest that Tesla or any other EV’s suck, or that people shouldn’t buy them, I merely suggested that they don’t work for every situation and they don’t save as much money as you claimed.
Very well put; I totally agree that everyone has different reasons for buying vehicles.
According to their need and pleasure.
I have a 6 year old Prius that I love to drive long distances; I also purchased a MYP for fun and to kick but….
Same in my experience. And also the fact that ICE cars harvest its heat output for cabin heating, which is otherwise wasted in the summer. Its *relative loss* from summer-->winter is less than EV's loss from summer-->winter.
I purchased an MYP because I like performance, speed and like to drive fast..
I drove from Anaheim Ca to Chandler AZ to visit my grandkids, I HAD TO MAKE 3 STOPS to plug in and could easily been Four
I didn’t buy the MYP to drive 65-70 mph. Most of AZ highway speed limit is 75mph, commercial trailer trucks are doing 80-85mph; In one stretch I was having fun driving 85-95mph, then Boom 
my Tesla is telling me that if I don’t slow down to 60mph I might not make the next SC station. 
so now everyone is passing me up laughing, pointing at me and my high performance MYP 
did make it to Buckeye SC like a turtle. Now that was embarrassing! Never again will I take the Tesla long distance. I’m also not the kind of person that likes to be sitting around for 30+ minutes waiting to charge to 80% I’ll continue to drive my MYP around town having fun at whatever speed I like & charge at home. I do own two Hybrid Toyota’s that can take me to Chandler and back in less time and at any speed
@Ostrichsak
Interesting thread about the winter range hit.
teslamotorsclub.com
Interesting thread about the winter range hit.
2023 Model Y 25,000 (24,524) Mile Update - Cold Weather Impact
I’m thrilled with my Tesla after 6 months of ownership. I was an optimistic purchaser and it has largely delivered. I’ve learned a lot and liked a lot. Here are a few areas that have been meaningful to me. For those of you that have read my previous posts you know that I was determined to...
teslamotorsclub.com
If you think that's what was going on you have bigger problems than the Tesla battery.so now everyone is passing me up laughing, pointing at me and my high performance MYP
Similar threads
