How many will look into the F-150 Lightning?

[T3SLAROD]

I guess it just proves that there need to be different strokes for different folks. I, personally dislike the Acura MDX controls. Way too many buttons and knobs scattered around the dash and center console. But then I don't own one and have only experience it when driving relatives' ones.
I haven't experienced any auto wipers that I've found to be good enough.
Anyway, while I can respect preferences between likely differences between the CT and the Ford 150 Lightning, if the Model 3 wiper control is enough to tip folks' decision between a CT and a Ford, they probably have no real need for a pickup truck of any type.

You're right the MDX interior is definitely too busy. I mean, I would say 95% of CT reservation holders have no need for a pickup.

 

[McFlurri]

You're right the MDX interior is definitely too busy. I mean, I would say 95% of CT reservation holders have no need for a pickup.

I have no need for a pick-up truck... and yes.. i want a Cybertruck. So add me to that 95% lol.

 

[ScottMarshall]

The Ford F 1-50 Lighting looks interesting. I am curious to see how many will consider this instead of the Cybertruck.

The price of the Lighting also looks pretty good ("Standard-range model will start at $39,974, before any federal or state tax credits, while pricing for the mid-range model begins at $52,974.") especially with an EV rebate factored in. But, I imagine that is for a standard cab and crew cabs, which would be closer to the CyberTruck, would be considerably more.

I will certainly consider it over the CT. It is much more mainstream oriented.

 

[dazedNconfuzed]

but bulletproof stainless steel door panels isn't a joke either? I mean I can count the times i've been shot at with 9mm in my vehicles at one hand.... (even less than that)

I haven't been shot at, but have driven close enough to dangerous people - and seen enough video of mobs in 2020 - to appreciate an affordable vehicle which can withstand mundane violence.

 

[strider]

What Ford is marketing for the Lightning is definitely similar to Tesla, as it appears to me that the "charging your house" feature has been directly taken from the CT. Regarding autopilot and safety features, Tesla is a lead innovator, and what I admire most is their originality with CT's design and features. Not to mention the stainless steel alloy used for the frame, which was made by SpaceX.



I highly doubt the F-150 Lightning will be real competition for Tesla's Cybertruck since it's clear that Tesla is devoting all their time, money, and resources into building factories and perfecting their electric vehicles, while it seems that for a while at least, other automakers have not been prioritizing making sale-topping EVs, only getting subsidies and tax rebates and such. Not to mention the amazing track record Tesla has with sales of their vehicles over the past several years; there have been many other EVs from legacy automakers that have seen poor sales in comparison to Tesla. Ford does have a lot going for itself, such as the iconic reliability of the F-150, but I'd want to see the Lightning deliver to customers first and meet expectations of a vehicle better than or just as good as the Cybertruck, before I can choose Ford's hype vehicle over Tesla's sales track record.

I see the impatience of wanting to wait until 2022 or 2023 for the Cybertruck a reason to choose the Lightning over the CT, but if Tesla's making a better product, I see reason to wait for it.

Wow. Just Wow. You must be on some REALLY powerful drugs. Pretty much nothing you said is correct. Tesla has LONG poo-poo'd V2G. Elon tweeting "Yes" is just another in a VERY long list of Elon's lies (where's my hovering Roadster?).

You do know that the ONLY reason that Tesla has EVER made a profit is due to the sale of EV tax credits? Tesla would not even exist without gazillions of dollars of government support.

Perfecting their electric vehicles? Sorry, you are new here. The quality of Tesla vehicles has been on a downward trajectory ever since Model 3. Go read the issues thread about the refreshed MS. Software doesn't work, cars arriving with dents, interior trim not affixed, tons of other things. This is on a car that has barely changed in 9 years! My wife regularly complains about her 2018 MS (AC cuts out randomly, SC can't diagnose it - they see the shutdown in the logs but can't figure out what's going on) and wants her 2012 MS back.

Also, Ford understands how to build a pickup truck. The exterior lighting, the trailer assist technology, usability of the bed and frunk, you name it. The CT will suck at all of those things. Summon barely works now, you want to add a trailer to the mix? I wish the Lightning had more range, but it will be a mush more useable truck than the CT. Not that that's a bad thing - very few people actually need/use a pickup truck for pickup truck stuff. But I think Ford saw an angle and will capture effectively all of the traditional truck buyers.

I haven't been shot at, but have driven close enough to dangerous people - and seen enough video of mobs in 2020 - to appreciate an affordable vehicle which can withstand mundane violence.

You are willing to trust lying Elon with your life? You are braver than I.....

 

[Feathermerchan]

The F150 Lightning is built from F150 parts which is good because it is a known quantity and bad because it is not very innovative. I particularly hate the folding shifter. But now that Tesla is opening their charging network, and the F150 will be able to power my house, I'll have to look at it. If the CT was going to offer V2H I'd probably buy it because of Tesla's EV production history.

 

[Krazaak]

Wow. Just Wow. You must be on some REALLY powerful drugs. Pretty much nothing you said is correct. Tesla has LONG poo-poo'd V2G. Elon tweeting "Yes" is just another in a VERY long list of Elon's lies (where's my hovering Roadster?).

You do know that the ONLY reason that Tesla has EVER made a profit is due to the sale of EV tax credits? Tesla would not even exist without gazillions of dollars of government support.

Tesla has definitely downplayed the concept of V2G. I'm not a fan of the idea either, it's viable as an emergency power source, but the idea of balancing the grid load by using your vehicle as a stationary power source is silly. With the obsession people have over every mile of degradation, the idea of wearing the battery by the equivalent of potentially 100s of miles every day is absurd. The only person who would suggest that with a straight face is somebody who wants to sell you a replacement battery pack. Now, the ability to use your vehicle as power during an emergency is another thing entirely and that does have merit.

Also, I believe this last quarter represented the first that Tesla posted a profit from vehicle sales alone. Also, I'm not sure any of the big 3 US manufacturers or anyone in the oil/gas business can take the high road when it comes to government support and subsidies.

 

[NoGasNoBrakes]

Wow. Just Wow. You must be on some REALLY powerful drugs. Pretty much nothing you said is correct. Tesla has LONG poo-poo'd V2G. Elon tweeting "Yes" is just another in a VERY long list of Elon's lies (where's my hovering Roadster?).

You do know that the ONLY reason that Tesla has EVER made a profit is due to the sale of EV tax credits? Tesla would not even exist without gazillions of dollars of government support.

Perfecting their electric vehicles? Sorry, you are new here. The quality of Tesla vehicles has been on a downward trajectory ever since Model 3. Go read the issues thread about the refreshed MS. Software doesn't work, cars arriving with dents, interior trim not affixed, tons of other things. This is on a car that has barely changed in 9 years! My wife regularly complains about her 2018 MS (AC cuts out randomly, SC can't diagnose it - they see the shutdown in the logs but can't figure out what's going on) and wants her 2012 MS back.

Well that was a bit aggressive.

Anyway, your point about the Roadster still not being out is actually pretty fair. Tesla is pretty bad at delivering at the appropriate times, and their schedules often get delayed by years, which I definitely see as a concern they gotta fix. The way I see it, though, is that their delays are similar to the ones experienced by some big-name movies and music artists, in which it takes them much longer than anticipated to finish a project, but when it releases, it delivers.

Tesla's main source of income is through credits, but their exponential sales of vehicles is still there. It would be misleading to not also state their expansion and success regarding scaling and sales, especially when you compare them to vehicles such as the Chevy Volt, which has had much less sales than Tesla in recent years.

As someone who's got to experience the early-gen 2012 Model S and the early-gen Model 3, as well as the new Model S Plaid, I've seen huge improvements in Tesla's vehicles. I agree that there are still flaws, especially in the first few iterations of a new car they release (which is obviously a problem), but Tesla is always quick to fix these. In my experience alone, the 2012 MS Plaid has had so many more improvements over the 2012 MS. One key part about Tesla's vehicles for me is also the continuous software updates, which allow the cars to be improved on over the years.

Also, Ford understands how to build a pickup truck. The exterior lighting, the trailer assist technology, usability of the bed and frunk, you name it. The CT will suck at all of those things. Summon barely works now, you want to add a trailer to the mix? I wish the Lightning had more range, but it will be a mush more useable truck than the CT. Not that that's a bad thing - very few people actually need/use a pickup truck for pickup truck stuff. But I think Ford saw an angle and will capture effectively all of the traditional truck buyers.

I agree, they do know how to make a traditional pickup truck, and they definitely will make profit from the Lightning, especially from people who will buy traditional trucks. I don't know what evidence you have for saying the CT will suck at those things; considering I think it's a great truck, I'd like to be shown why I'm wrong, if I am. I'm not sure how Summon being pretty poor right now is evidence for why the CT will be a poor truck. Would be great if you could show me some thing that help support your arguments.

 

[Zorg]

EV credits are not a government subsidy. They're funded by other manufacturers who can't meet their goals. It's a mechanism for pricing in externalities. GM is probably the biggest recipient of government subsidy since, we the taxpayers, bailed them out (though at an ultimate profit).

 

[Trips]

Reservation ~#15,000 for the Lightning. In 6 years my dad went from saying electric cars are stupid to wanting me to get him one. The Cybertruck design was a little much but the Lightning will be perfect. His requirements were a normal looking truck, large "navigation" screen and to be able to go 180 real miles (300 mile Tesla range) in the winter.

 

[strider]

As someone who's got to experience the early-gen 2012 Model S and the early-gen Model 3, as well as the new Model S Plaid, I've seen huge improvements in Tesla's vehicles. I agree that there are still flaws, especially in the first few iterations of a new car they release (which is obviously a problem), but Tesla is always quick to fix these. In my experience alone, the 2012 MS Plaid has had so many more improvements over the 2012 MS. One key part about Tesla's vehicles for me is also the continuous software updates, which allow the cars to be improved on over the years.

I said that the QUALITY of Tesla cars has been going down ever since the Model 3 and I stand by that. They regularly ship cars that should never have passed QA. The reports of M3s with bumpers that fell off is legion. Heatpumps held in place by wooden door trim pieces from Home Depot. Many software features don't even work on the refreshed S/X. They are shipping those cars with messed up interiors and literal dents in the sheetmetal. That car has been in production for 9 years and they still can't figure out how to install an interior and not bash the sheetmetal?

Further, Tesla has trouble with anything back-end (because that is not cool in Elon's mind). It took 5 months to repair our MS after a ver mild deer strike (this was in late 2019 so not COVID-related. The car was still drivable, it just needed a front fender, bumper, and hood. 5 MONTHS! At one point the hood sat in Dallas for 3 WEEKS waiting on a shipping label to be created. This is not a sign of a company that is destined for greatness.

I agree, they do know how to make a traditional pickup truck, and they definitely will make profit from the Lightning, especially from people who will buy traditional trucks. I don't know what evidence you have for saying the CT will suck at those things; considering I think it's a great truck, I'd like to be shown why I'm wrong, if I am. I'm not sure how Summon being pretty poor right now is evidence for why the CT will be a poor truck. Would be great if you could show me some thing that help support your arguments.

Because Tesla has no experience in what makes a good truck and how people use trucks. Ford has had their Backup and Hitch Assist features for the last 5 years and continue to improve it. My wife will appreciate this when she is backing the boat trailer down the ramp. They have additional features like onboard scales to tell you how much weight is in the bed and smart hitch to help you make sure your tongue weight is correct for best towing. Ford is thinking about how people will actually use the truck, Elon just thinks about whatever is cool in his mind.

My evidence is 11 years of Tesla ownership. As an example, summon keeps getting worse to the point that Elon says it's not a real feature and IIRC they are not working on it anymore - oh but the next version is going to be awesome! Elon continues to promise the moon and then what is delivered barely reaches the troposphere. Now they're going to build a robot? Yet another distraction for the company that should be focused on delivering quality hardware and software and providing customer service.

Tesla is still by far the EV king. They are able to ship poorly built cars because there is not currently an alternative. But the alternatives are coming.

I also have to say that individual Tesla employees have been outstanding. Every one that I have interacted with in my 11 years of ownership does everything they possible can to make my experience great. All of my complaints above are 100% the fault of Elon Musk. He is an amazing and visionary leader but he is categorically the worst manager I have ever seen. He should not be involved in day to day operations of Tesla in any way. He should remain as a product evangelist but leave the operations to an actual adult.

It pains me to watch Tesla slowly go down the tubes like this. My hope is that competition will spur them to action. We shall see.

 

[TessP100D]

I said that the QUALITY of Tesla cars has been going down ever since the Model 3 and I stand by that. They regularly ship cars that should never have passed QA. The reports of M3s with bumpers that fell off is legion. Heatpumps held in place by wooden door trim pieces from Home Depot. Many software features don't even work on the refreshed S/X. They are shipping those cars with messed up interiors and literal dents in the sheetmetal. That car has been in production for 9 years and they still can't figure out how to install an interior and not bash the sheetmetal?

Further, Tesla has trouble with anything back-end (because that is not cool in Elon's mind). It took 5 months to repair our MS after a ver mild deer strike (this was in late 2019 so not COVID-related. The car was still drivable, it just needed a front fender, bumper, and hood. 5 MONTHS! At one point the hood sat in Dallas for 3 WEEKS waiting on a shipping label to be created. This is not a sign of a company that is destined for greatness.


Because Tesla has no experience in what makes a good truck and how people use trucks. Ford has had their Backup and Hitch Assist features for the last 5 years and continue to improve it. My wife will appreciate this when she is backing the boat trailer down the ramp. They have additional features like onboard scales to tell you how much weight is in the bed and smart hitch to help you make sure your tongue weight is correct for best towing. Ford is thinking about how people will actually use the truck, Elon just thinks about whatever is cool in his mind.

My evidence is 11 years of Tesla ownership. As an example, summon keeps getting worse to the point that Elon says it's not a real feature and IIRC they are not working on it anymore - oh but the next version is going to be awesome! Elon continues to promise the moon and then what is delivered barely reaches the troposphere. Now they're going to build a robot? Yet another distraction for the company that should be focused on delivering quality hardware and software and providing customer service.

Tesla is still by far the EV king. They are able to ship poorly built cars because there is not currently an alternative. But the alternatives are coming.

I also have to say that individual Tesla employees have been outstanding. Every one that I have interacted with in my 11 years of ownership does everything they possible can to make my experience great. All of my complaints above are 100% the fault of Elon Musk. He is an amazing and visionary leader but he is categorically the worst manager I have ever seen. He should not be involved in day to day operations of Tesla in any way. He should remain as a product evangelist but leave the operations to an actual adult.

It pains me to watch Tesla slowly go down the tubes like this. My hope is that competition will spur them to action. We shall see.

I read this and feel sad. I have to agree with you on all accounts. My top of the line 2017 MS P100D rocket ship is slowing going down hill and I can hardly stand it. Electronics don’t work, systems don’t work, summons…. Lol … forget about it. Range is already down to 290 from 320. Just not same car Anymore. OTA updates ruined my car. MCU crashed. I mean it’s a shadow of what it once was. Can’t even think of getting a new one because of Crazy Elon and his stupid ideas. Yoke, stalks, please.

 

[dazedNconfuzed]

You are willing to trust lying Elon with your life? You are braver than I.....

You drive something more resilient than 3mm steel body plates and transparent aluminum ceramic windows?

 

[strider]

You drive something more resilient than 3mm steel body plates and transparent aluminum ceramic windows?

Well, I don't drive anywhere that requires such hardware. But if I did, I would have my vehicle modified by one of the firms that has actual experience building armored vehicles. Hence my question about trusting your life to a team with zero experience building such things - the CT reveal showed that.

 

[scottf200]

With a Ford representative ... "Sandy takes a test drive and checks out Ford's BlueCruise hands-free driver assist technology."

I suspect the representative was hoping it would have gone better.

 

[abasile]

With a Ford representative ... "Sandy takes a test drive and checks out Ford's BlueCruise hands-free driver assist technology."

I suspect the representative was hoping it would have gone better.

After getting used to Autopilot, and "Navigate on Autopilot", on our Model 3, I would not be able to bring myself to buy a non-Tesla vehicle. Ford is years behind on autonomy.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Regarding the 'no experience' comment above, remember that Tesla had no experience building the Models 3 and Y but both have 5 star crash ratings and overall Tesla makes vehicles that have the lowest probability of injury in an accident. So I'm not sure your idea is correct.

 

[NoGasNoBrakes]

Regarding the 'no experience' comment above, remember that Tesla had no experience building the Models 3 and Y but both have 5 star crash ratings and overall Tesla makes vehicles that have the lowest probability of injury in an accident. So I'm not sure your idea is correct.

Not to mention the CT has great horsepower and acceleration exceeding other trucks, as Tesla chose a more aerodynamic design. Just because Tesla doesn't have experience with making a certain product doesn't mean they can't do it. And Cybertruck certainly is well thought-out; it's not just some random thought that they had one day, based on its design and performance. Sure, there are probably ways to improve it, but Tesla has done a ton considering they've never built a truck before, and they're always more than willing to make changes to their vehicles that may be seen as controversial for traditional automakers to do, for the sake of making the CT better.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Ford has more experience building pickups than anyone. They build over 700,000 F series each year. At least pre-COVID.
But They have had plenty of recalls/service bulletins. Examples:
Pyrotechnic seatbelt tensioners that set the truck on fire.
A really small 20A fuse for the fuel pump that tends to burn up the connection in the fuse box leaving you with no fuel pressure.
6 spd Transmission lead frame failure (internal to the trans) that has to be replaced.
Failing backup camera.
First gen 3.5L EcoBoost V6 that fouls the intake valves and cannot be cleaned chemically so has to be disassembled.
Rear glass that shatters when the electric defroster is used.
IWE (connects the L/R front driveshafts (4X4 models) to the wheel hub quit working. Current 'fix' is to engage them all the time.
All of these apply to my 2011 except the EcoBoost because I have the 5.0L

 

[strider]

With a Ford representative ... "Sandy takes a test drive and checks out Ford's BlueCruise hands-free driver assist technology."

I suspect the representative was hoping it would have gone better.

Well, the Mach E drove under an overpass w/o slamming on the brakes so it's beats Tesla AP right there.