Here we go again ... fool me once.
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HV Battery failure! 2014 S85 with 43,000 miles, single owner car
- Thread starter Bob Atkins
- Start date
airborne spoon
Active Member
I'm at 168k miles on the original 85 battery of my 2014 car. and according to recurrent its in better condition than other cars of the same model. But I'm getting the 100 upgrade done at 057 tech for $23k anyway just for the more range and charging speed that a 100 provides.
I'm fairly confident that people that don't use the car often have the most issues
I'm fairly confident that people that don't use the car often have the most issues
I have 117k miles, a 2017 model. I use the car a lot. Never have any batteries problems. Only problems I have are suspension related, and heater.
I have been looking at the used car market for the last few months for my own needs (both ICE and EV). The used market may have cooled very slightly but it is still running way hotter than it should be. I found that even a modest ICE vehicle (Subaru Crosstrek, Nissan Rogue, etc) that is around 3 years old with about 50K miles is going to run about $25-30K. A new version of these used cars is generally only about $5K more with zero miles and 4+ year warranty. So, why buy used? Higher end cars (BMW, Mercedez, etc) are well about the $40K range for similar age and mileage with almost all near the end of their warranty. Warranties can sometimes be extended for another $2-3K and that needs to be factored in. The used car market is dominated by a couple of mega corps that have successfully been able to control the market and pricing for the majority of vehicles that are 5-6 years old or newer.
Selling a bricked 2014 Tesla S privately might bring at most $20K in the Los Angeles area - more likely as little as $8-10K so there is not much value there. That would provide a budget of around $30-40K max to work with. I haven't seen much in the used market (ICE vehicles) that would compare to the same class as a Model S or even a Model 3 for that price.
You do know that Tesla (as do other companies) have lots of smart people coupled with some great AI and market research to know exactly how to price the replacement battery in order to keep the owner. The replacement cost for a bad HV battery situation is perfectly priced to make it very difficult for a Model S owner to have any financial advantage by selling the bricked car and walking away. This is by design. Battery packs likely don't cost Tesla much more than $4-5K each to build. The repair price is their comfortable margin and buffer they can and will use to keep the owner trapped into their product.
My own market research has proven this both in terms of trading to a similar class used vehicle (ICE or EV), using a 3rd party battery replacement company or just bending over paying (rewarding) Tesla's deceitful tactics and sticking with the 'devil she knows'.
This is how Tesla sees its customers:
Does it suck to be corralled into this position - you bet. I also realize that 'resistance is futile' - we are all being herded by our corporate overlords and some (probably most) people are both blissfully ignorant and/or seem to be quite happy with this.
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Bob Atkins
airborne spoon
Active Member
Not sure as to why but it seems that everyone that has failing batteries and motors all have low miles on older vehicles. My thought is that with the constant usage it keeps things working and for the folks that only drive a few days a month around town maybe the car just craps out. I dono its just what it seems like from various posts people made.
I'd be very surprised if they actually have such a waitlist. I'd bet good money it isn't true.
This ^
From what I can tell based on conversations with my own customers who have spoken with them, they just tell customers things like that because they can't actually provide the requested service and hope the customer goes away. I've had customers tell me that they were told various "waitlist" times ranging from a few months to over a year. It really seems like they just make up a number to make people go elsewhere and get people to post stuff like that so they can appear busy and relevant somehow.
It's been pretty well proven at this point that their proposed "fix" for such problems doesn't work for very long, and I've not heard of anyone getting S work done there since after their second shop fire a while back.
I understand s**t happens, but I could never send my car to a place that's supposedly an expert in EV repair, yet somehow managed to have not one but two electrical fires destroy their entire facility... twice! But, that's just me. What do I know.
Thank you for the suggestion. I doubt my mother-in-law would consider a Toyota to be in the same class as a Model S. She used to drive an E class Mercedes before the Model S and I expect that if she replaced the Model S it would be with an E class or similar.
It's a very unfortunate problem.
I think all Lexus have sound dampening everywhere on the body. Feels like you're in the cloud and forget you're really in a car. Can't even hear the road noise on the tires compared to a Model S too.
Or, try a Lexus ES500h. It very quiet on the inside, with higher quality materials than a Model S too. Not too shabby with fuel as well. Might want to test drive one for sure.
I think all Lexus have sound dampening everywhere on the body. Feels like you're in the cloud and forget you're really in a car. Can't even hear the road noise on the tires compared to a Model S too.
I share you exact concerns regarding Gruber Motors. I doubt that they can even get insurance to operate after the 2nd fire. I would never take a chance with them just based on their history.I'd be very surprised if they actually have such a waitlist. I'd bet good money it isn't true.
This ^
From what I can tell based on conversations with my own customers who have spoken with them, they just tell customers things like that because they can't actually provide the requested service and hope the customer goes away. I've had customers tell me that they were told various "waitlist" times ranging from a few months to over a year. It really seems like they just make up a number to make people go elsewhere and get people to post stuff like that so they can appear busy and relevant somehow.
It's been pretty well proven at this point that their proposed "fix" for such problems doesn't work for very long, and I've not heard of anyone getting S work done there since after their second shop fire a while back.
I understand s**t happens, but I could never send my car to a place that's supposedly an expert in EV repair, yet somehow managed to have not one but two electrical fires destroy their entire facility... twice! But, that's just me. What do I know.
I also agree with you regarding the risks and outcomes for repairing the HV battery pack by 3rd parties. It is simply too complex and they lack crucial data that only Tesla has to be able to reasonably classify module compatibility in terms of age and compatibility. I suspect that even Tesla has given up on 'remanufacturing' battery packs because its just too hard even for them. As for what they do with the batteries returned in the 'bad' packs - I have to wonder. Grid power backup seems likely but who knows beyond that. One thing is for sure - they are definitely making money on the returned 'bad' packs.
I’m no scientist, I’d consider myself “dumb” to these cars but with all of the research I’ve done and seen with my car I bought with 42k and failed back, seems the bad packs are indeed the cars with low mileage, I think not constantly cycling the battery plus moist areas, or winter climate, all takes a huge toll. If the car is driven every day or even 200 miles a week( I do 1000 a week) I feel the battery being heated and cycled is the key to a long life, on top of charge limits, and another think everyone never thinks of, the round vents on each side of the pack, they fail and allow moisture to get in and not so much out as the modules are encased in plastic
I’ve lost faith in your ability to shop for used cars for sale in the $30k range.
There’s hundreds of late year low mile E-Classes for sale.
And honestly, an early MS is a pretty crappy car by today’s standards. I wouldn’t want to drive one if it was free. Your mom would be impressed by most new cars.
Charging cycles definitely degrade a Lithium battery After about 1000 cycles they are pretty much toast.
Calendar time appears to be the issue rather than charge cycles. I think you'll find that regardless of mileage (ok less than 250K) you will find that 2012 - 2014 Q1 Model S battery packs are being 'failed' by the BMS - they are just being timed out - regardless of mileage on the vehicle. Driving less is not an issue. The main life shortening issue is fully charging to 100% all the time. Charging to around 80% should provide decades of lifespan given that the cells can typically handles 1000 or more charge cycles before a modest 10-20% capacity loss occurs.
Lithium batteries don't usually fail. Like most batteries they trend towards failure over a fairly long time span. It takes a carefully programmed BMS to suddenly flag a battery failure rather than advise of overall performance degradation. Sorry but a BMS battery failure notice shortly after an OTA software update is no coincidence especially when you read that it has happened to hundreds, if not thousands of cars globally - regardless of mileage.
Of course, proving this would be almost impossible and Tesla knows this - so they don't care.
This is what they think of their customers:
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Bob Atkins
I agree completely , besides seeing several 150-200k+ 2013 and 2014 cars, and the ones with higher mileage from what I’ve seen are original packs or claimed to be original , so that makes me think it’s more or less constant use, I mean what happens if you leave a MacBook dead in the cold for a year, it’s shot
juliusa
Active Member
Consider the RC210+ option from ReCell. My guess is you could get it done rather quickly and for half the price of the Tesla repair, including round-trip shipping.
I think the RC210+ battery would meet your mother's needs - driving about 5,000 miles per year - unless she only uses it for an annual cross-country road trip. I believe the ReCell warranty is 4 years/50k miles - sell the car before the warranty expires.
Disclosure: I am a very satisfied ReCell customer.
Whatever you decide, I hope it all works out for you.
I think the RC210+ battery would meet your mother's needs - driving about 5,000 miles per year - unless she only uses it for an annual cross-country road trip. I believe the ReCell warranty is 4 years/50k miles - sell the car before the warranty expires.
Disclosure: I am a very satisfied ReCell customer.
Whatever you decide, I hope it all works out for you.
Didn't Tesla change the battery chemistry in mid 2016? That may be why you haven't had any problems.
How’s their current insurance policy?
Did the owners involved in prior fires get made whole?
How does anyone think that osha violation wrapped in 4walls is a good idea? Are short term memories really that bad?
Yeah 2017 should have the problems plagued by the 1st Gen Model S. Better battery, more sturdy, rust resistant battery connectors, and this maybe most important, the AC Condensation drain isn't directly over the battery.
I would how many Gen 1 Tesla engineers got fired?
henderrj
Active Member
Consider asking Tesla for a refurbished battery. Saves a lot of bucks, and still has a 4 year warranty. Do some searching on this site to find out the many variables, and the possibility of "winning the lottery".
Also Tesla often is able to supply a loaner during repair. So there's that.
Also Tesla often is able to supply a loaner during repair. So there's that.
