HW2.5 capabilities

[electronblue]

@chillaban The implication (speculation) is AP2 does not get dashcam or sentry mode because of vanity reasons — it would look bad for Tesla.

 

[boonedocks]

@chillaban The implication (speculation) is AP2 does not get dashcam or sentry mode because of vanity reasons — it would look bad for Tesla.

WOW vanity vs us 1000's of AP2.0 purchasers...don't get this feature...which is worse for your image. I want the feature, even if black and white and shades of gray. I am not that vain.

 

[electronblue]

WOW vanity vs you 1000's of AP2.0 purchasers...don't get this feature...which is worse for your image. I want the feature, even if black and white and shades of gray. I am not that vain.

I was speaking of Tesla’s speculated vanity (it would look bad to see B&W imagery). I’m sure the owners in general want the feature.

 

[iTech]

I'm not sure I understand your implication. By "black and white" you mean RCCC with high dynamic range. Which is a fairly common choice for colorspace used by a lot of automotive sensors and even license plate readers / red light cameras. It's not great in a dashcam because the best we've been able to resolve it to human colors is a strange alien world where you get accurate shades of brown and red and everything else is just suspiciously blue.

But still, it's not like Tesla's primary motivation for AP2.0's colorspace was cheaping out on dashcams. Those are driving cameras first and foremost, and they probably believed back then they needed an extra clear channel to deal with sunlight and night time driving conditions, where 3 clear channels gets you a lot more dynamic range.

I couldn't help it

You and I are agreement though.

 

[boonedocks]

I was speaking of Tesla’s speculated vanity (it would look bad to see B&W imagery). I’m sure the owners in general want the feature.

I knew what you meant and completely agree with you. Just sad that a black & white video of catching someone messing with your car or crashing in to you or causing a major accident is less important than saving your vain image - TESLA!!!!!

 

[Alketi]

It's not black & white. It's grayscale in the red color channel.

And the speculation for that being the reason is just speculation.

 

[verygreen]

It's not black & white. It's grayscale in the red color channel.

And the speculation for that being the reason is just speculation.

Do you have any better ideas though?

 

[verygreen]

So, is your prediction that no HW2 cars will get a free upgrade to the HW3 computer even if the owner purchased Full Self-Driving? Or that only HW2.5 cars will get it, not HW2.0?

Pretty much. I don't think hw2.0 cars would be retrofitted with hw3 computer by Tesla at all.

Overall I suspect there would be (almost) no retrofits at all and the current computers would be declared as able to do all that was promised (because Model3 replacement is going to be a huge pita and drain on resources). I don't exclude that there would be some retrofits on m3s and hw2.5 car in a highly visible manner for some well connected people to demonstrate it happened and everybody else would get put on some super long waiting list.

But I would be happy to be proven wrong on both counts.

 

[iTech]

Pretty much. I don't think hw2.0 cars would be retrofitted with hw3 computer by Tesla at all.

Overall I suspect there would be (almost) no retrofits at all and the current computers would be declared as able to do all that was promised (because Model3 replacement is going to be a huge pita and drain on resources). I don't exclude that there would be some retrofits on m3s and hw2.5 car in a highly visible manner for some well connected people to demonstrate it happened and everybody else would get put on some super long waiting list.

But I would be happy to be proven wrong on both counts.

Agreed, it'll be either both 2.0 and 2.5 or none with the reason being that the current hardware is good enough. Isn't the AP computer between 2.0 and 2.5 the same besides the 2.5 having a B node that isn't used at all?

 

[electronblue]

Agreed, it'll be either both 2.0 and 2.5 or none with the reason being that the current hardware is good enough. Isn't the AP computer between 2.0 and 2.5 the same besides the 2.5 having a B node that isn't used at all?

That isn’t what @verygreen for some odd reason is saying. He is saying AP2.0 will not get retrofits even if AP2.5 does.

I don’t quite see why. The harness reasoning doesn’t convince me, that is trivial.

 

[ord3r]

Verygreen, what makes you think Model 3 retrofits won’t happen? Just because it is in the glycol loop?

Looks like a 2 hour job to me all in, which is only about double than the 50 minute s/x swap. I’d imagine they just swap the whole enclosure and then refurbish the Mcu sections in the factory with hw3.

 

[rnortman]

Verygreen, what makes you think Model 3 retrofits won’t happen? Just because it is in the glycol loop?

Looks like a 2 hour job to me all in, which is only about double than the 50 minute s/x swap. I’d imagine they just swap the whole enclosure and then refurbish the Mcu sections in the factory with hw3.

I think the reason is not technical so much as money. It just costs Tesla a lot to do this, and they don't have a lot of cash lying around. With HW2.0 there are also some technical issues. There's also just the permanent cost of maintaining software versions for different configurations -- now you have to test FSD on current-model vehicles and also previous vehicles where were built in one configuration but then changed to another -- undoubtedly there will be subtle differences.

 

[verygreen]

Agreed, it'll be either both 2.0 and 2.5 or none with the reason being that the current hardware is good enough. Isn't the AP computer between 2.0 and 2.5 the same besides the 2.5 having a B node that isn't used at all?

it is now used for the dashcam (as of 19.8.1 on model3 only)

New Verygreen, what makes you think Model 3 retrofits won’t happen? Just because it is in the glycol loop?

Have you seen the steps to take the computer out on the 3? and then you need to replace both the autopilot and the infotainment... And then reprovision everything... This is not going to be easy or fast - a huge drain on already overstretched service.

Looks like a 2 hour job to me all in

How did you arrive at this time estimate?

 

[ord3r]

I'd imagine they'd create a provisioning workflow specifically for this procedure, and leverage the sd card to ease the transition to new infotainment unit, potentially allowing skipping some provisioning steps. imagining a workflow like:

2 hours is optimistic but:
About 30-45 minutes to disassemble trim and to gain access to computer
15 minutes remove computer and sd card
15-30 minutes to insert sd card into new cpu unit and mount
30-45 minutes to re-assemble trim
45 minutes to an hour for new unit to run through restore and upgrade process. During this time the car can just be sitting around not taking up active tech time, just space.


Old cpu unit goes back to the parts bin, probably for AP2.5 replacements, but also potentially to reuse the infotainment side.

 

[ord3r]

It's not a small job, but its not a 2,000-5,000 job either, I think Tesla comes out ahead here. Unless they already spent that cash I guess......

 

[BigD0g]

It's not a small job, but its not a 2,000-5,000 job either, I think Tesla comes out ahead here. Unless they already spent that cash I guess......

Except they don’t even have the resources to service the current fleet, it’s going to be a nightmare to retrofit all the cars and the line grows litteraly everyday. Until, HW3 releases the bleeding / backlog doesn’t stop.

 

[ord3r]

Except they don’t even have the resources to service the current fleet, it’s going to be a nightmare to retrofit all the cars and the line grows litteraly everyday. Until, HW3 releases the bleeding / backlog doesn’t stop.

At least anecdotally, service does not seem overstressed in my area. Are you having issues, or have you seen a large number of reports of stressed service centers?

Service is booked 3-4 weeks out for me in Orange County, CA. This is consistent with what I experienced with Subaru dealers and with my Fiat 500e. Actually getting the fiat service took many months of booking in advance, Tesla has been way quicker for me, and often has moved me up to next business day by offering ranger service.

 

[scottf200]

At least anecdotally, service does not seem overstressed in my area. Are you having issues, or have you seen a large number of reports of stressed service centers?

Service is booked 3-4 weeks out for me in Orange County, CA. This is consistent with what I experienced with Subaru dealers and with my Fiat 500e. Actually getting the fiat service took many months of booking in advance, Tesla has been way quicker for me, and often has moved me up to next business day by offering ranger service.

Wonder how well the Tesla phone app relatively new feature is helping with scheduling and estimating 'hours' for service. Certainly, they would add an entry for HW3 upgrades and optimize/schedule the knowledgable/experienced techs. That being said, I will not be first in line with my 2.0 X. At the large/busy Westmont, IL location I didn't have any trouble getting service in the past 1 1/2 months. I had a 2yr service and then later a charge port entry.

 

[mongo]

Except they don’t even have the resources to service the current fleet, it’s going to be a nightmare to retrofit all the cars and the line grows litteraly everyday. Until, HW3 releases the bleeding / backlog doesn’t stop.

Outsource to contract labor house...

 

[rnortman]

Outsource to contract labor house...

Everything is simple to you, isn't it? Simple, cheap, easy. Any particular reason you haven't released your own self-driving car yet?