-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
I don't care about non-EVs anymore
- Thread starter LoudMusic
- Start date
I've learned it's hard to explain to be honest. If I describe it logically, it sounds the opposite of what you'd expect, and makes me sound like a masochist at worst.
One comparison might work (I write video games on my free time, so this at least worked in my head)...Imagine you have two identical video games, save for input scheme. One has the traditional walk, run, jump, attack, etc. input scheme, where you have to perform the accurate and properly timed input to get to the end and save the princess. The other game just has a button called "saved the princess", which saves the princess instantly, with no other input needed. Then imagine you're required to save the princess each day...
A person who doesn't enjoy or play video games for fun would totally go for the single button press input. They don't have to do any of the work or worry about the proper input; everything will happen accurately and instantly. They can even brag about how fast and flawlessly they save the princess, every day. They'd never understand why somebody would ever want the version of the game where you actually have to do all the input.
Another person who enjoys playing video games would most likely take the game with traditional input. And not only are they never gonna save the princess as fast as the people with the one-button game, they're gonna fail a LOT before they finally are able to get to and save the princess. But they're gonna also get the enjoyment of seeing themselves improving throughout the process, the sense of accomplishment whenever they get a tricky jump just right, and the pleasure at becoming "one with the game", where they just kinda let their earned skills take over and watch their reactions and instincts get them through parts of the game that were once impossible to them. They'd never understand why somebody would ever want the boring one-button input version.
I kinda see many modern cars (not just limited to EVs, to be clear) a lot like the former: the greatest personal transportation yet for people who aren't interested in driving, but all the automation included in the newest cars is taking over the traditional connection and input that cars used to offer. It's for a lot of good reasons, including performance, efficiency, comfort, convenience, and safety (in some cases, at least)...in fact, it's better for virtually any and all objective characteristics. But I'm no longer really challenged to learn how to improve my inputs to make the car perform better and I'm not nearly as engaged with the driving experience (no getting rewarded for keeping an engine in its optimal power band since all you do is floor it...automated steering will take over if I don't stay in your lane....and the car even wants to do the braking for me).
Not only that, but when I'm not engaged with driving, I feel like I'm not as safe a driver: when I have to give the car input to drive, I'm usually not only watching all the traffic around me, but also paying attention to things like other drivers' heads and expressions in order to anticipate what I might have to deal with. Should I get ready to downshift to get into the powerband to speed up or engine brake because somebody's about to merge into me without looking? Are drivers way up ahead veering a bit to the edge of the lane, meaning I should get a bit over in my lane so as to possibly avoid something that might be in the road? When I'm engaged in driving, this is not only normal behavior, but fun. When I'm not engaged, it's really hard for me to pay as much attention (which is also one reason I'm personally not crazy about any self-driving short of level 5).
Other things that kinda make some of these modern cars (EVs, but also other modern) cars seem more non-enthusiast-friendly to me:
- The strange controls (specific to the refreshed Model S, at least...these take a lot my attention that I'd normally use for driving and even botch up my muscle memory when driving other cars)
- The fact that a lot of these cars insulate you from the outside stimuli that can make driving fun (wind, noise, fresh air, etc.)...in fact a lot of the most efficient cars seem to have windowed roofs instead of sunroofs (I assume to keep the wind resistance down), and even suggest you don't drive with the windows down (for the same reason), and
- There's not near as much as you can do to upgrade and personalize EVs. Most of the customization seems to be limited to body wraps and maybe some new KWs. If you get bored with old ICE cars, you can always customize most anything you want to make it interesting again, including powertrain modifications. Not just more power (which most EVs probably don't even need), but tuning it to behave like you want. With a lot of EV performance being locked behind software, new cars and companies are probably going to have even tougher encryption to discourage and prevent modification that much more. To me, this means cars will become more and more cookie-cutter, with no ways to fix the things you don't like, improve the things you do, and make it more your own.
Pretty long winded, I know, but hopefully this helps at least partially convey how I'm processing everything? It's kinda a state of mind; again, how does one justify a slower, noisier, more primitive experience as being more enjoyable? Often people have to experience it for themselves. Before I got into manuals, I wouldn't have understood either, for example: even back then, autos were more efficient and faster...why would one want a manual where you have to do more work to get less performance? Then after spending some time driving a manual-equipped car, one day I just realized that I got out of the car with a giant smile on my face...But before then, I would have never been able to explain it to myself. Same thing with me trying to explain to myself why modern day cars (especially EVS)--despite being faster, more efficient, and more comfortable as ever--have turned out to be less enjoyable for me to drive.
This makes sense. You put effort into becoming a good driver using manual controls. You feel like a race car driver doing it. Then along comes this car that just... makes the old lady down the street on par with you. You don't have to do anything special in this new car to beat your old car... you could be blindfolded.
This feels like you lost something.
For me, and many others, we came from cars that were worse on all levels than our Teslas. We were happy with those cars too, until we experienced a fast EV drivetrain.
We feel like we gained something. It's the opposite experience as you.
This feels like you lost something.
For me, and many others, we came from cars that were worse on all levels than our Teslas. We were happy with those cars too, until we experienced a fast EV drivetrain.
We feel like we gained something. It's the opposite experience as you.
I like the visual styling of classic cars for the most part. Particularly classic trucks. But I have never cared about the sound or much of anything related to the drive train.
This is such an amazing idea to me.
This is such an amazing idea to me.
I think the issue is that those cars fail abysmally at aerodynamics. It's likely already an expensive conversion, then you'd lose a huge part of your range because the car is a giant wind catcher.
Sure but I don't think people are expecting to drive a classic car ev conversion at interstate speeds, or long distances. Many of them were built when the speed limits maxed at 55mph. They become rather uncomfortable over that speed anyway.
SalisburySam
Active Member
What books/movies have you been reading/seeing? Not my experience at all. Speed limits in NW Florida in the late ‘60s/early ‘70s were 70mph and that was not at all unusual. Speed limits went to 55mph across the US after the fuel shortage of 1973 and stayed there until no one cared to ticket anymore, then they quietly went away. All of my cars of that era were easily able to cruise at 70 and beyond all day long. And there was nothing at all uncomfortable about any of them at those speeds. Most were far more comfortable than today’s vehicles given the soft suspensions, bias ply and lower pressure tires, and the wonderful plush and expansive bench seating. Bucket seats became a rage and eventually took over but they were rare in mid-century.
I have to do this before I get too old
www.motortrend.com
Register Now for the 28th HOT ROD Power Tour!
HOT ROD Power Tour 2022 registration is now open! Have you earned your Long-Haulers plaque yet?
Yeah--though I don't really feel like a race car driver--I honestly drive like a grandma most of the time. I just enjoy having an interactive driving session--and one where the better I interact, the more fun the drive is.
I think I'm also addicted to small, lightweight cars--once they start getting anywhere near 3000lbs, they really start feeling heavy and not very responsive. Unfortunately modern cars (especially EVs) have really moved up on the scales, and I don't think EVs (with any range) will be lightweight anytime soon.
That said (and speaking of grandmas), I think I've come to terms with the old ladies being able to beat me. I figure in a decade, the average soccer-mom-mobile will be pulling sub-2-second 0-60s.
But yeah, for appliances, I love electric. Never planning on using gas mowers, weed-wackers, leaf blowers, etc. ever again.
No. Variety is the spice of life and where EV excel ICE lacks and vice versa. A car is a tool and where Tesla excels and others lack. Same goes the other way where ICE can excel over Tesla or another EV. I'm a performance guy and the ONLY reason I own an EV is because of the Model S Plaid. Low 9s, under the radar, and a factory warranty (albeit with shitty service) was very enticing. I have no desire for the EV roadster coming out or the Rimac (which is well outside my affordibility). The Tesla cars are fun to drive but there's something about the engine, the vibrations, the guttural feeling of the motor screaming at you while you go for a drive. Plaid made me appreciate other cars for other attributes rather than chasing pure speed. The other rides I have are not slow but can't hold a candle to the Plaid in straight line. Conversely, the theater, experience, and chassis livelihood is not something the Tesla can match the others can.
I had an R8, traded for the Ferrari, and have an Audi RS7 which is my wife's car. She hates no physical buttons and loves the RS7 over the Tesla. I like them both depending on the mood I'm in.
I'm sorry but V12 and almost 9000rpms is something a Tesla can never experience and is heaven on wheels....I have race pipe (catless) and x-pipe in bound but stock exhaust...well yeah it's heaven.
I jokingly say the Tesla is my carbon offset for that Ferrari. 7-8MPG when I drive it like it's meant to be driven.
I had an R8, traded for the Ferrari, and have an Audi RS7 which is my wife's car. She hates no physical buttons and loves the RS7 over the Tesla. I like them both depending on the mood I'm in.
I'm sorry but V12 and almost 9000rpms is something a Tesla can never experience and is heaven on wheels....I have race pipe (catless) and x-pipe in bound but stock exhaust...well yeah it's heaven.
I jokingly say the Tesla is my carbon offset for that Ferrari. 7-8MPG when I drive it like it's meant to be driven.
Last edited:
I guess I am getting old. My first (and second) car was a 1970 Bose 302 Mustang. Fun car when I was 16. Simple to work on and great for me since my father owned a gas station and garage. It was pretty cheap in the mid 70s (2,100 for first one, 1,950 for second). Simple and easy to work on. And stood out. However, now days I would not want one.
After going EV, I find most ICE cars limited. The whole concept of a changing gears to maintain acceleration is to me arcane and a compensation for the limitations of an ICE engine. And after having tasted Tesla minimalist controls I really like them more. I recently drove a Kia Hybrid and was shocked at how many knobs and dial it had. I asked the owner about it, and she said they had only had the car for 5 months, so they were still using the manual to understand how to do things.
After going EV, I find most ICE cars limited. The whole concept of a changing gears to maintain acceleration is to me arcane and a compensation for the limitations of an ICE engine. And after having tasted Tesla minimalist controls I really like them more. I recently drove a Kia Hybrid and was shocked at how many knobs and dial it had. I asked the owner about it, and she said they had only had the car for 5 months, so they were still using the manual to understand how to do things.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I was never much of a THRILL driver, first car (dream car) was the 23 window 1966 VW Bus that my family picked up at the factory in Germany using the Euro-pick up deal when I was four. Even saw them loading it on the boat to America from the deck of our cruise ship to America at the English coast after visiting almost every country in Western Europe.
All my friends in high school had Challengers (17 total), I preferred my little putt putt which was already too noisy for me. When I inherited a Malibu convertible I developed a taste for convertibles that lasted most of my car driving history, but until the Tesla I never really drove like the car was on rails. The stretch up Mt. Hamilton I did with the SF Tesla group en masse was a blast, and the Sonora Pass near our cabin is my favorite stretch of road ever (get there at dawn).
The fact that this SAME sports car can drive for me in grandma mode makes me super happy. I like not racing there because it won't really benefit me much in time and WILL stress me out, but if there is a cool stretch of road there is no car I would prefer to be driving in. I now look at ALL other vehicles and I cannot imagine wanting to drive them. Non-EVs make no sense, but most EVs don't catch my interest either.
Now when are we gonna have a electric RV on the market so I can get rid of my two diesel monstrosities.
All my friends in high school had Challengers (17 total), I preferred my little putt putt which was already too noisy for me. When I inherited a Malibu convertible I developed a taste for convertibles that lasted most of my car driving history, but until the Tesla I never really drove like the car was on rails. The stretch up Mt. Hamilton I did with the SF Tesla group en masse was a blast, and the Sonora Pass near our cabin is my favorite stretch of road ever (get there at dawn).
The fact that this SAME sports car can drive for me in grandma mode makes me super happy. I like not racing there because it won't really benefit me much in time and WILL stress me out, but if there is a cool stretch of road there is no car I would prefer to be driving in. I now look at ALL other vehicles and I cannot imagine wanting to drive them. Non-EVs make no sense, but most EVs don't catch my interest either.
Now when are we gonna have a electric RV on the market so I can get rid of my two diesel monstrosities.
Last edited:
Those VW Buses are worth a lot of money
I think someone should make an EV stick shift with a transmission for people that miss it.
Have the EV contain two modes.
When in manual mode, reduce the motor power to be similar to a ICE engine and use the 4 or 5 speed transmission.
When in automatic, bypass the transmission and give the Motor full power.
Would be more expensive and more parts for the transmission but there would probably be a market for it.
Or maybe simulate the transmission with the motor programming. Could just be as simple as a software issue tied to a stick and clutch to replicate the “feel”.
Have the EV contain two modes.
When in manual mode, reduce the motor power to be similar to a ICE engine and use the 4 or 5 speed transmission.
When in automatic, bypass the transmission and give the Motor full power.
Would be more expensive and more parts for the transmission but there would probably be a market for it.
Or maybe simulate the transmission with the motor programming. Could just be as simple as a software issue tied to a stick and clutch to replicate the “feel”.
roblab
Active Member
People that need to have a bunch of noise to prove their cars are running are missing something in the head. I prove my car is running by leaving the hot rod next to me sitting at the light while I rocket across the intersection when the light turns green.
It used to be that noise equaled power, but that's not the case anymore. The few gear heads that still need noise are just a sorry segment of a past age. Glad some of us could move on.
It used to be that noise equaled power, but that's not the case anymore. The few gear heads that still need noise are just a sorry segment of a past age. Glad some of us could move on.
