pdk42
Active Member
No, the phone is not used as a key - but you get a wireless key fob that opens the car as you approach it; and you can lock it by touching the handle.
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I just ordered an ID4
- Thread starter TooEager
- Start date
pdk42
Active Member
Well, it is what it is. In my view it’s not so bad, although I do agree that a little extra spent on interior materials would have avoided negative comparisons against, say, the Golf. The ID4 is a lot better so they must have listened.
I don’t think diesel-gate or development budget had anything to do with it though. VW have spent over £20bn on the ID platform and in general I think they’ve done a very good job. The ID3 interior maybe reflects a production cost/margin thing, but I think at least part of it is environmental (from a recycling perspective) and maybe weight too. Or it could just be a mistake! The SEAT version of the ID3 (Elborne I think) looks very nice inside.
For me (my opinion and nothing more), I feel the rest of the car manufacturers have been soooo slooow to make anything comparable to Teslas on range and they have done next to zero for the supercharging infrastructure (to encourage EV uptake).
For me the Leaf is good (I have one), but old tech (has no battery cooling thus limiting it's overall 24hr range) (I know this from experience)
The Kia e-niro and Hyundai Kona are the only other cars that offer decent range. (at reasonable money)
I don't like german cars, build quality is great, yes, but long term reliability is all too often worse than the Japanese cars, yet the Japanese cars are a better price.
As you probably guess, I'm a fan of the Japanese cars (always had them in the past) think the build quality is good and they are reliable long term, however except for the Nissan Leaf, where are their EV offerings?
So after that (for me) that leaves very little choice currently.
For me the Leaf is good (I have one), but old tech (has no battery cooling thus limiting it's overall 24hr range) (I know this from experience)
The Kia e-niro and Hyundai Kona are the only other cars that offer decent range. (at reasonable money)
I don't like german cars, build quality is great, yes, but long term reliability is all too often worse than the Japanese cars, yet the Japanese cars are a better price.
As you probably guess, I'm a fan of the Japanese cars (always had them in the past) think the build quality is good and they are reliable long term, however except for the Nissan Leaf, where are their EV offerings?
So after that (for me) that leaves very little choice currently.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
When I come to Change my M3 in maybe another 3 years. I suspect the SuC Network will still be Tesla only and a big draw. I would love to be wrong but I think it will take longer than that for it to sort itself out.
I have had Blackhorse agree to take my M3 LR after 7 months of issues last week (I know not everyone will have this experience) - now a bit confused about which car to get next between
a) M3 LR again - loved the car - made me feel like a boy - but the experience with build quality and Tesla service attitude in West Drayton gives me nightmares - for my driving style (mostly M roads 70mph) I think we will get about 200-220miles.
b) ID4 - for all the reasons around better build quality and decent price and better boot accessibility. The only downside is that the UK will not be getting what we have been watching in the videos from Germany and Ireland. UK 1st edition doesn't get the bigger infotainment system, tow bar, 360 camera, heat pump, and the heads up display(I love the way they have implemented it)
c) Skoda Enyaq - like this form factor personally more than the id4 - but will not be delivered for another 5-6 months at least.
a) M3 LR again - loved the car - made me feel like a boy - but the experience with build quality and Tesla service attitude in West Drayton gives me nightmares - for my driving style (mostly M roads 70mph) I think we will get about 200-220miles.
b) ID4 - for all the reasons around better build quality and decent price and better boot accessibility. The only downside is that the UK will not be getting what we have been watching in the videos from Germany and Ireland. UK 1st edition doesn't get the bigger infotainment system, tow bar, 360 camera, heat pump, and the heads up display(I love the way they have implemented it)
c) Skoda Enyaq - like this form factor personally more than the id4 - but will not be delivered for another 5-6 months at least.
ACarneiro
Active Member
This is a bit unfair.
I think for a Tesla forum we are fairly even handed and quite happy to share the gripes, annoyances, imperfections and cock-ups we’ve experienced with Teslas.
Just because many of us (myself included) really like Tesla for one reason or another doesn’t mean we’re “fanbois”.
From what I’ve seen, that’s more of an American thing (reading the Teslarati article replies is a soul-wrenching experience).
Shame about the issues with your M3. It is a bit of a lottery with Tesla. But I'm not convinced about service quality at your average VW dealership either - especially with an EV that they seem reluctant to even sell.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Sooner or later I think Tesla will have to address some of the common niggles that customers have, especially once there is some realistic competition around. At the moment, if anyone wants a 250 mile real world range EV for under £50k, their choice is really just the Model 3 LR or the ID.3 Pro. The Polestar 2 and the Kona 64 kWh probably almost make it to 250 miles real world range, but it might be touch and go. The only two cars that are really comparable out of that selection would be the Model 3 LR and the Polestar 2, and clearly the Model 3 has the edge in terms of both performance and real world range.
Coming soon to the UK market, though, we will have the Nissan Arriya, Mustang Mach E, Skoda Enyaq and VW ID.4, plus the Cupra elBorn, perhaps. Although the VW interior might be it's weakest point (was for me), the Skoda and Cupra models that are using the MEB platform both look to be a great deal better inside.
Clearly the supercharger network matters for some, but there will be others (like me) that rarely, if ever, use it. For those who can charge at home every night, and don't need to regularly drive more than a couple of hundred miles or so a day, the attraction of the supercharger network may not be strong enough for them to choose a Tesla over another brand.
Given that there seems to be an increased pace of development of other charging networks, sponsored in part by some of the above manufacturers, then it seems likely that we may find that we become more like Norway before too long. It's notable that Bjorn Nyland seems to be able to do epic 1000 km drives in a range of EVs, in very cold weather, using non-Tesla charging networks. If Norway can do it, then there's no reason the UK can't either.
Coming soon to the UK market, though, we will have the Nissan Arriya, Mustang Mach E, Skoda Enyaq and VW ID.4, plus the Cupra elBorn, perhaps. Although the VW interior might be it's weakest point (was for me), the Skoda and Cupra models that are using the MEB platform both look to be a great deal better inside.
Clearly the supercharger network matters for some, but there will be others (like me) that rarely, if ever, use it. For those who can charge at home every night, and don't need to regularly drive more than a couple of hundred miles or so a day, the attraction of the supercharger network may not be strong enough for them to choose a Tesla over another brand.
Given that there seems to be an increased pace of development of other charging networks, sponsored in part by some of the above manufacturers, then it seems likely that we may find that we become more like Norway before too long. It's notable that Bjorn Nyland seems to be able to do epic 1000 km drives in a range of EVs, in very cold weather, using non-Tesla charging networks. If Norway can do it, then there's no reason the UK can't either.
Oh yeah I totally get that they've invested. I just remember watching a lot of car journalist reviews of the ID 3 as I was interested in getting one. And they literally all said the same that it looked like VW were cutting costs where they could because of the big payouts they're involved in. They also said the same about the new MK 8 Golfs as well.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
I suspect the interior material issues with the ID.3 may be similar to those that impacted the earlier Prius models. Toyota tried to reduce the amount of oil-derived materials in the car, and switched to using plastics made from biomass for some of the interior trim panels, even going so far as to grow their own crops to make the stuff from. It worked in terms of making the car have a lower carbon footprint, but all the biomass derived plastics felt a bit cheap, as it seems that soft finishes aren't easy to achieve with these materials.
VW has vowed to reduce the carbon footprint of the ID.3, as a part of its shift to try and address the dieselgate scandal (although it's clear that pretty much every manufacturer was doing much the same) so it wouldn't surprise me if they've run into the same issues that Toyota did, with these "eco plastics" feeling a bit cheap and nasty. Personally, I'd pay a bit more to have a real leather interior, although I guess it won't be long before leather is made illegal . . .
VW has vowed to reduce the carbon footprint of the ID.3, as a part of its shift to try and address the dieselgate scandal (although it's clear that pretty much every manufacturer was doing much the same) so it wouldn't surprise me if they've run into the same issues that Toyota did, with these "eco plastics" feeling a bit cheap and nasty. Personally, I'd pay a bit more to have a real leather interior, although I guess it won't be long before leather is made illegal . . .
VW makes nice cars. My car before my M3 was a VW Sharan and I just bought my daughter a VW Polo which is beautiful: it has lovely touches like rubberised paint down low to avoid paint chips and lovely seals on the doors to stop water ingress down low.
It's great that VW is making such massive strides into the EV space. I just wonder if it's the autonomy piece that is going to be decisive. Tesla is the only one installing the hardware needed for autonomy. If the fleet does "wake up" in the not too distant future that's a big advantage of buying Tesla now as opposed to anyone else. I may even send my M3 out to work for me. It sounds far-fetched, but that day will surely come.
It's great that VW is making such massive strides into the EV space. I just wonder if it's the autonomy piece that is going to be decisive. Tesla is the only one installing the hardware needed for autonomy. If the fleet does "wake up" in the not too distant future that's a big advantage of buying Tesla now as opposed to anyone else. I may even send my M3 out to work for me. It sounds far-fetched, but that day will surely come.
Right. Performance has zero to do with it. I agree with your comments. But a driver has some influence on it as well.
There has been occasions the TACC in Tesla’s when following another vehicle had this subtle slow down speed up cycle thing that could make some folks sick. Have not felt it for quite some time.
Are you sure about that? It's good that they are at least making some effort, but I just can't get excited about these cars. Choosing a Model 3 over a VW iD3 took about 5 seconds of debate. I'm not a Tesla fanboi, I would have preferred it to be a much harder choice! The Polestar 2 held much more interest for me, but my wife preferred the Model 3.
Coming from an eGolf to a Model 3.... I get your change and desires...
the ID.4 and Mach E were on the very short list for a transition from the eGolf. We did not want an SUV, however.
You have to look at your use case. In the US, the Superchagring network is many many years ahead of all the others...while we charge at home and use limited miles, the ability to change plans and find a close supercharger for a quick zap is worth the shortcomings. The other charging networks are still shaking hands with the car or asking for payment methods while the Tesla is getting to the last minute or two of range needed. Really.
The Scandinavian video's are not the reality of elsewhere, certainly not even close to the US. The 'fast lane car' reviewers had the same problems with the Mach E - it's supposed to integrate with the networks (ala Tesla) but never worked for them. The issue is that the chargers are un-manned and you have to call and get a human to fix or reboot the charger, or find another charger.
In summary, the Tesla was our last choice (owned Ford's for 25+ years) - but the charging network makes Tesla usage as close to ICE thinking as it gets.
the ID.4 and Mach E were on the very short list for a transition from the eGolf. We did not want an SUV, however.
You have to look at your use case. In the US, the Superchagring network is many many years ahead of all the others...while we charge at home and use limited miles, the ability to change plans and find a close supercharger for a quick zap is worth the shortcomings. The other charging networks are still shaking hands with the car or asking for payment methods while the Tesla is getting to the last minute or two of range needed. Really.
The Scandinavian video's are not the reality of elsewhere, certainly not even close to the US. The 'fast lane car' reviewers had the same problems with the Mach E - it's supposed to integrate with the networks (ala Tesla) but never worked for them. The issue is that the chargers are un-manned and you have to call and get a human to fix or reboot the charger, or find another charger.
In summary, the Tesla was our last choice (owned Ford's for 25+ years) - but the charging network makes Tesla usage as close to ICE thinking as it gets.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Big difference here is that we don't have the massive area to cover that the USA has. Our road network is also such that long road trips, of the sort that might be typical in the USA, aren't as commonplace here. Average mileage driven per car here is around 8,000 miles per year, so less than 30 miles per day. Some do drive long trips regularly, and for them an easy to use charging network is essential, others don't, so it's not such a big influence when it comes to making a decision on which car to buy.
For example, I've been driving plug in cars since 2013, and the Model 3 is my second pure EV. I've never once used a rapid charger, of any sort. We did a lot of holiday trips (before lockdown), as we're both retired now, and our pattern of driving was to drive for maybe 200 miles or so at most each day, not really because of any range limit, but because my wife doesn't much like being sat in the car for more than four or five hours. If our trip was longer than that, we'd stop overnight and slow charge at a destination charger (always found I've been able to do this at hotels and guest houses). The car's then charged and ready to go for the next stage of the holiday the following morning.
The one journey we have to be able to make at short notice is a ~120 mile trip to an ageing relative, so perhaps 240 miles if we don't charge down there. For that reason I keep the car charged to 90% all the time here at home, but there are five rapid chargers along that route (none of them superchargers) anyway, so we'd not have a problem topping up if we needed to.
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say I wanted one myself (though the ID3 is quite cute from the front). I love my M3 and its OTA updates and its FSD. But Elon said the plan was always to show the car industry it could change to sustainable energy and Tesla was there to force them to make that change. There is NO WAY the German car manufacturers would have lit that fire under their proprietary diesel tech. They spent years colluding with each other about which new tech we could and could not have - highly anti-competitive.
You have to remember, Kodak invented the digital camera and then hid it in a safe as they knew the damage it would do to their business. EV v ICE is just the same.
pdk42
Active Member
But you’re comparing a £32k car (real world price for a middle-spec ID3 model) with a Tesla Model 3 SR+ at £42k. They’re not in the same sector.
BK11SBY
Member
I've been a Volkswagen, Audi group fan all my driving life. I have owned in excess of 35 cars most of which have been VW's, with some Audi's. I owned a Dieselgate Bluemotion and was shocked at all carmakers but especially VW as it affected me and their attempts to trick us into harming the planet. When I test drove a Model S at a launch event in Northampton back at the start I knew then what was possible and was amazed at how much better the Model S was compared to th fossil car makers.
I then expected VW to put all the 'fine' money they got let off to good use. They promised to improve inferstructure and bring cars to market quickly.
Since then several VW dealers have talked me out of the GTE, e-Golf, saying they could do me a great deal on a small turbocharged petrol or diesel and with small ranges and poor fuel economy with the GTE, I held off until I picked up a 2nd hand Model S, which i've done all the door handles on and replaced the 12v battery with a Li-po. Yes you shouldn't have to do those things but compared to fuel pumps,servicing costs, and all the fuel i've saved, I do't regret it.
I'd love a VW again but they still feel very far behind and cannot see any of the 9 Billion spent on chargepoints etc. I look forward to having a close look at the I.D, especially if it beats the model Y to ours shores.
Good luck with your purchase.
I then expected VW to put all the 'fine' money they got let off to good use. They promised to improve inferstructure and bring cars to market quickly.
Since then several VW dealers have talked me out of the GTE, e-Golf, saying they could do me a great deal on a small turbocharged petrol or diesel and with small ranges and poor fuel economy with the GTE, I held off until I picked up a 2nd hand Model S, which i've done all the door handles on and replaced the 12v battery with a Li-po. Yes you shouldn't have to do those things but compared to fuel pumps,servicing costs, and all the fuel i've saved, I do't regret it.
I'd love a VW again but they still feel very far behind and cannot see any of the 9 Billion spent on chargepoints etc. I look forward to having a close look at the I.D, especially if it beats the model Y to ours shores.
Good luck with your purchase.
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