I would like economy mode for my mdl 3-my thoughts/config

[Model 3]

Because Tesla says they are smaller on the web site.

You are absolutely correct that Tesla clams that the front/dual motor is smaller and lighter then the old RWD motor. Their clam was that it was a newly developed motor and that they had managed to get a greater efficiency from this motor then their old big motor. And a lighter motor should also save some weight from the car and so help a bit with range. But their clam was that the main reason for the greater range was - as others here already have said - different gear-ratio front/rear, using the most effective motor at any time and the torque sleep function.

I do not know if Tesla's clams is true or not, but until someone that has measured and/or weighted this motors I do trust Tesla on this. Here is what is in the wikipedia:

In the 85D, the rear drive unit is replaced by a smaller one to save cost and weight, while a second motor of similar size is added to the front wheels. This results in an AWD car with comparable power and acceleration to the RWD version while keeping the price increase to US$5,000. Additionally, the 85D reports a 2% (5-mile) range increase and 11% increase in top speed over the 85[69] (presumably due to incremental improvements in hardware and software). In the P85D, the high-power rear drive unit is retained, while a new front drive motor boosts the total power by about 50%. This results in a significant increase in acceleration and top speed.

 

[EaglesPDX]

And... you keep saying 'smaller' anyway.

Well...Tesla says smaller so I go with that. You can go to Tesla's page on the TS and they show a smaller size on the two AWD motors vs. the single RWD motor and list lower HP for each. As Tesla notes this enables them to gain 8 miles in range. The question is can Tesla use the same downsizing and multiple motors to gain more range and will it be at the expense of acceleration. Energize just one motor at speed for example similar to ICE motors shutting down cylinders for range gain.

Your photos of some motor displays are very interesting but don't seem to have any context vs. the actual specs and graphics on the Tesla page.

It's all about range against the machine.

 

[diamond.g]

Well...Tesla says smaller so I go with that. You can go to Tesla's page on the TS and they show a smaller size on the two AWD motors vs. the single RWD motor and list lower HP for each. As Tesla notes this enables them to gain 8 miles in range. The question is can Tesla use the same downsizing and multiple motors to gain more range and will it be at the expense of acceleration. Energize just one motor at speed for example similar to ICE motors shutting down cylinders for range gain.

Your photos of some motor displays are very interesting but don't seem to have any context vs. the actual specs and graphics on the Tesla page.

It's all about range against the machine.

Well gearing and torque sleep probably help more than the size of the motor. What proves that point? Look at the P85 range versus the P85D range.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Well gearing and torque sleep probably help more than the size of the motor. What proves that point? Look at the P85 range versus the P85D range.

Gearing nor torque would affect the range in the case of EV's. The gearing is a simple transfer case and does use energy but the smaller AWD motors and the larger single RWD motor both have a transfer case. Be fair to say the energy loss is likely identical for both transfer cases.

Tesla alluded to energy management between the two smaller motors as the reason which leads to the speculation that even smaller motors might lead to greater range.

 

[JeffK]

Gearing nor torque would affect the range in the case of EV's. The gearing is a simple transfer case and does use energy but the smaller AWD motors and the larger single RWD motor both have a transfer case. Be fair to say the energy loss is likely identical for both transfer cases.

Tesla alluded to energy management between the two smaller motors as the reason which leads to the speculation that even smaller motors might lead to greater range.

As posted before you can read the actual post by JB regarding the dual motor setup and it's relation to speed and range
Driving Range for the Model S Family

also the quote from Elon regarding the matter:

"Because we have two drive units, where we can shift the power from front to rear, and constantly be at the optimal efficiency point for each motor," Musk said, "we're actually able to overcome the penalty of the increased mass of the motor."

Later he elaborated for Bloomberg News: "We're able to balance the efficiency of the motors....If you have just one motor, it's always on a particular power-vs-efficiency curve."

"But if you have two motors, you can optimize between them, and have the motors operate in their more efficient regime more of the time."

In the performance version of the model X the gearing is supposedly 9.34:1 for the small motor and 9.73:1 for the large motor but I'm too lazy to confirm from the manual.

 

[EaglesPDX]

also the quote from Elon regarding the matter: ""Because we have two drive units, where we can shift the power from front to rear, and constantly be at the optimal efficiency point for each motor," Musk said, "we're actually able to overcome the penalty of the increased mass of the motor."

Which points to increased range for even smaller motors. Running more efficiently on just one motor, the less mass issue noted above are all reasons to believe that smaller motors would yield greater range such as the 8 miles gained going from one large to two smaller motors in the AWD TS60. If that range is at the expense of acceleration, that is OK with 90% of Tesla buyers.

Musk's point about weight is well taken. Motors tend to be heavy and even a few hundred pounds off increases vehicle's range.

 

[JeffK]

Musk's point about weight is well taken. Motors tend to be heavy and even a few hundred pounds off increases vehicle's range.

The older Model S motor weighs only 70 lbs... the new one weighs even less

To lighten the weight on both motors would be negligible... you might see better gains with diet and exercise.

 

[EaglesPDX]

The older Model S motor weighs only 70 lbs... the new one weighs even less

To lighten the weight on both motors would be negligible.

Depends on how much smaller and lighter the motors would be as weight is one of the biggest determinants of range. However I think it would be as much the fact only needing to magnetize the smaller motors and to use the motors more efficiently than one large motor.

It will be interesting to see how Tesla increases the range.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

The older Model S motor weighs only 70 lbs... the new one weighs even less

To lighten the weight on both motors would be negligible... you might see better gains with diet and exercise.

So what you're basically saying here is that I should be able to post really decent numbers carrying my 175lb frame around.....

 

[JeffK]

So what you're basically saying here is that I should be able to post really decent numbers carrying my 175lb frame around.....

haha yeah, it was mentioned specifically in tests that a driver with a "medium weight" was used for the 0-60mph tests.

 

[Red Sage]

Which points to increased range for even smaller motors.

No. It is an increase in range due to TWO motors working in concert, regardless of their 'size'. And once again, you refuse to answer the query, "Smaller than WHAT?" There are currently only two motor 'sizes'. One size that is used at front and rear of 'D' vehicles. One size that is used in Rear Wheel Drive configuration, or at the rear of a Performance vehicle. What matters is the output of those motors, which varies due to trim level and battery pack capacity. In a Performance vehicle, which will be a dual motor system, the front motor is the same one that is used in the non-Performance 'D' vehicles. And, in a Performance vehicle, the rear motor is paired with a physically larger Inverter.

 

[Red Sage]

Depends on how much smaller and lighter the motors would be as weight is one of the biggest determinants of range.

Not really. The Toyota RAV4 EV had a range of 103 miles, with a 41.8 kWh usable capacity. The Tesla Model S 40 had a range of 139 miles with a 40 kWh usable capacity. The Model S 40 weighed around 400 lbs more than the RAV4 EV. I would submit that the 0.31 coefficient of drag (and 154 HP motor) was the culprit that held back the RAV4 EV. The Model S 40 had a 0.24 coefficient of drag (and 302 HP motor) instead.

 

[Red Sage]

So what you're basically saying here is that I should be able to post really decent numbers carrying my 175lb frame around.....

It has proven rather difficult for me to get below 180 lbs again. I never seem to go below around 195 lbs anymore.

 

[BluestarE3]

It has proven rather difficult for me to get below 180 lbs again. I never seem to go below around 195 lbs anymore.

Note to self: add to my Model 3 planning checklist a reminder to lose some weight over the next couple of years.

 

[SpiceWare]

It has proven rather difficult for me to get below 180 lbs again. I never seem to go below around 195 lbs anymore.

I keep my weight around 170 lbs by walking 10 miles a day while I work.

 

[Jayc]

It has proven rather difficult for me to get below 180 lbs again. I never seem to go below around 195 lbs anymore.

A simple formula that always works for me... forget the complex jargon and concentrate on key contributors (Too much) Sugar, Fat, Carbs & (Not enough) Energy drain.

* Too much carb in a meal then try reduce sugar and fat on that day
* Too much fat, then skip dessert and reduce carb portion in the meal
* Too much sugar or alcohol in a day, try take less of everything else that day
* Try at least some exercise and don't jump into food when hungry, give it some time

There you go, unofficial health info on TMC!

Totally off topic BTW.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

It has proven rather difficult for me to get below 180 lbs again. I never seem to go below around 195 lbs anymore.

5+ days over 90 degrees in New England is enough to make you sweat some of that off....OK, me anyway....

Hmmmm....when I add the wife and 2 dogs in....we're still well under 350lbs "cargo".

Should be fun.

 

[EaglesPDX]

No. It is an increase in range due to TWO motors working in concert, regardless of their 'size'.

Two smaller motors vs. one larger motor so if making the motors smaller and using them more efficiently leads, as it does, to 8 miles greater range, perhaps even smaller motors that can only accelerate the car to 60mph in 8 seconds vs. 5 would yield 20 miles of greater range.

Most T3 buyers would go for the greater range.

 

[KeRaSh]

The bait is too strong... must... resist... feeding... the troll...

On a side note. Does anyone else think that EaglesPDX and tesla007 are the same person? No one else in the history of mankind has ever referred to Tesla Models as TS, TX or T3 besides those two users. Just wondering if that's against the TOS of the message boards. It could probably be verified through the originating IP unless he/she it already using VPN to fake it.

 

[EaglesPDX]

No one else in the history of mankind has ever referred to Tesla Models as TS, TX or T3 besides those two users. Just wondering if that's against the TOS of the message boards. It could probably be verified through the originating IP unless he/she it already using VPN to fake it.

Well actually the T3's full name is Leeloo Minai Lekarariba-Laminai-Tchai Ekbat De Sebat Tesla Model Three.