This is an interesting idea too but are you sure we can apply again for another charger in another year? I'm not too worried about the location of the chargers. If it's on the opposing wall, I'll probably just hoist the cable somehow and leave the charger handle closer to the charging port.
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If installing 2 L2 40amp chargers(14-50), can you share the same wiring(4/3) coming from a 60 amp breaker?
- Thread starter E46M3
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Very few EVSEs have cables longer than 24 feet. The Grizzl-E Duo has 24 foot cables for example. If placed at one corner of the vehicle, that is barely long enough to reach the opposite corner. Alternately, it can reach across the width (but not the length) of two stalls...barely. As in, if you pull the cable straight across such that it crosses the path through which both vehicles would drive.
There is not sufficient length to hoist something up to the ceiling and then come back down. Install your outlets close to each vehicle you will be charging (or get a hardwired EVSE and attach it close to where each vehicle will be parked). The only place that really makes sense to install an outlet is between the two stalls, either at the back (if you have two separate doors and can put the outlet/EVSE in the spot between the doors) or on the wall ahead of the spaces. And this might not work at all for your garage depending on the layout.
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I would skip the 14-50. The current instructions from Tesla regarding the TWC require that each TWC have its own branch circuit.
It might be updated but that's where it is now. This is where things start getting confusing because if you only have 200 amp service two 60 amp EV charging circuits will likely not pass. The power sharing runs into problems because the settings can be modified to draw more power.
The max for a 60 amp circuit is 48 amps (80%) for continuous load. A local electrician will know how to accomplish it in a way that will pass. Just make sure you have them pull permits and inspect the work when completed.
It might be updated but that's where it is now. This is where things start getting confusing because if you only have 200 amp service two 60 amp EV charging circuits will likely not pass. The power sharing runs into problems because the settings can be modified to draw more power.
The max for a 60 amp circuit is 48 amps (80%) for continuous load. A local electrician will know how to accomplish it in a way that will pass. Just make sure you have them pull permits and inspect the work when completed.
OP doesn't even appear to be using WCs. OP bought a Maxi which is an EVSE that's not capable of doing power sharing. This one needs its own branch circuit. There is no way that attaching a second 40A EVSE to the same branch circuit would ever pass inspection.
Huh? You can put 2x80A EVSEs on a 200A subpanel which maxes it out at 80%. 2x60A will easily pass.
Sure but when did the OP say that he/she had only 200A service? OP could have a 400A or 600A service line for all we know. I have a 200A subpanel for my cars and I'd be able to put 2x80A EVSEs on it because there are no other loads on it. The house runs off of the other 200A subpanel. And in any case, 2x50A circuits (80A of continuous load) would be fine even on a 200A service line.
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davewill
Active Member
The two wall connectors configured for power sharing should only count as one 60a circuit for loading purposes.
200 amp service is pretty standard. I'm making the statement because a lot of folks just assume they can add circuits because they have open space in the panel.
Some inspectors don't like this because it can be modified by the user. Especially with Gen 3 which can be modified in web interface instead of with the dip switch.
davewill
Active Member
But if you have capacity for two 60a circuits, what's the point of dealing with setting up power sharing?
Interesting that the discussion has focused on WC power sharing since the OP never mentioned WCs nor EVSE power sharing. The question was about sharing 4/3 wiring and having two 14-50 outlets (allowed so long as the outlets weren't installed "for the purpose of charging electric vehicles") with two EVSEs connected to them (prohibited; too much continuous load on circuit).
As far as the question about future proofing, the only thing you could do is use 2 runs of 3 gauge or 2 gauge copper so you can run 80A of continuous load over each circuit in the future. But you'll probably have trouble connecting that to any 14-50 outlet or 48A EVSE because the connectors weren't designed for wires that thick, so you'd have to use connectors that connect to thinner wiring just before you connect to the EVSE. You might also need to do the same at the connections to the breakers. But at least you wouldn't need to rerun the wires through the walls.
Thanks for all the input, very informative!! I'm new to EV and this is my first 100% EV. I had a Prius plug in so that's not very comparable. After reading everyone's comments, I think I'll return the Maxi and get the Grizzl_E Duo. I'm not too worried about sharing this 40amp charger and charging at the same time as I only have 1 MY and the plug-in(if rumors are true) Sienna, I'll get that in 24 or 25. Should be sufficient right? My commute is no more than 100 miles a day 3 days a week plus other usages on weekends and whatever... The plug-in probably only needs 8k miles a year.
My MSP is 200amp.
My MSP is 200amp.
That's a great question. What I hear is some electricians suggesting to install a junction box and connect both to the same circuit. I agree that if power sharing is setup they should be counted as one 48 amp continous load.
I don't think very many home owners would modify it knowing the risks.
I think that Grizzle E duo is pretty cool actually! Didn't know about that! I would prefer if it were hard wired though and not on a 14-50.
ATPMSD
Active Member
If you plan on installing more than one EVSE, unless you will be using power sharing or some sort of automated switch, you really should have an electrician do a load capacity analysis. In this way you will know what you can safely support. Maybe you will be able to run two 60A circuits, maybe they will have to be 50A or 40A. But you need a load analysis to make an educated determination.
I have a Grizzle-e Duo charging my Model 3 SR+ and Y LR. It's built like a tank with an all metal enclosure and really thick cables. It maxes out at 40 amps when one car is plugged in, 32 when both are plugged in but only one is charging, and does 20 amps to each when both are charging.
It will also go to 20/20 when one car is waiting to charge, so that may affect how you schedule charging. At one point I had one car set to start charging an hour before the other, but then I realized I was only getting 20 amps to the first car for that hour and it made more sense to have them both start at the same time. Once one finishes, it bumps the other up to 32 amps. Also if you unplug and plug back into a fully charged car, it will be seen as waiting to charge until the next time it completes a charge.
Having said all that, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to worry about the power sharing. When I arrived home from a road trip with the model Y below 20%, I unplugged the 3 to get the full 40 amps for the Y. Other than that we just keep them both plugged in.
Someone mentioned that you wouldn't be able to dock the handles with the Tesla adapters installed. That is not the case if you order the Grizzl-e with the Tesla cord hangers. They are designed to hold the cable with the adapter attached. The ones I have had little plastic nubs inside that I think were supposed to help position the handle in the holder. Those pieces all broke off over time, with one ending up in the adapter, where it had to be pulled out with needle nose pliers. They may have improved the design by now and they still work without those pieces.
Gizzle E might have a hit on their hands. if they made one that was hard wired and did 48 amps. That could give each vehicle 24. I would probably bite on something like that!
I am also surprised Tesla doesn't come up with something similar. I can't believe we don't see more options like this.
I agree on the load analysis!
Is their a charging speed breakdown for different amps? 20, 32, 40....
And do you think missing an app to manage this charger is a letdown? Charging a Tesla you can use the Tesla app to manage, but what if your other car is a lower-tech plug in that does not have a charging management app? But I guess just plugging both in and get 20 amp each is for the most part enough. Thanks!
I highly suspect that is to cover EVSE that know how to load balance (like what Wall Connectors allow). That would be nuts to allow multiple EVSE in parallel that could overload the circuit. They might also allow a single line that has the capacity to cover all EVSE. But it would not cover what OP asked for. They would allow anything that relies on a human to operate it in manner that won’t overload. Needs to be “idiot proof”.
I put an A/B switch on one setup. Not legal, but perfectly safe and idiot proof.
What do you mean? Tesla Wall connectors do even better. They will automatically shift the load to what is most in need. And I think you can have up to 4 on one circuit. What’s great too is you can buy one then you can add another later. Best of all worlds.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I like the TWC but this would be a much simpler install. One circuit, one charger, etc. Each has its pros and cons of course. Another con would be a single point of failure. Whereas with the TWC if one unit fails you have a backup.
I already have a 2nd TWC (the J1772) I'm installing soon. The duo is an exciting product though...but I would never install with a 14-50.
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