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IF Tesla partners with (_____???_____) for Supercharger locations....

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by AudubonB, May 30, 2013.

  1. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    ....then who are the likely candidates for fill-in-that-blank, and why?

    Gleaning this forum across the months for reasonable, or desired, or obvious names, we've had McDonald's, Starbucks, Tim Horton's, In-n-Out, and some others.

    A question I have is that, to a great extent, all those names and locations are franchises. Corporate HQ does have some say, but very, very little, in what its franchisees can do with their locations. I am not familiar with how such a three-way interaction could come to pass, but I don't think I'm going out on a very long limb by suggesting that any number of franchisees could feel themselves burdened unduly if they were tapped to host a SC, or be prejudiced if they weren't so chosen.
     
  2. bhuwan

    bhuwan Active Member

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    McDonalds- I keep saying it. Tesla needs to get in bed with McDonalds, as McDonald's own most of the land at rest stops across the US.
     
  3. RABaby

    RABaby Member

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    This may be a long shot, but since Tesla is building power trains for Toyota and Mercedes, is it possible that either or both of those dealerships could install superchargers that would service any of the the vehicles that use the proprietary connector? And would this partnership not be considered as a viable solution to the lack of dealerships in certain states?

    It's just a thought....
     
  4. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    And I say that's exactly wrong: McD does not. The various fanchisees own (rent, etc.) those slots. So it might be a lot more difficult to effect such a plan than if McD were the monolith you're assuming.
     
  5. RandyS

    RandyS Fan of Elon

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    As I've discovered with working with many hosts around town to install charging equipment, you really want to work with the property owner, or a national or region-wide property management firm. They can make the decisions about placement. If you deal with tenants, there is another couple of layers above them to get approval...

    So my vote would be a nationwide property management firm that has good locations in their portfolio...
     
  6. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    All dealerships in my experience (so of course, I am probably wrong) keep their chargers locked up at night, weekends, etc. etc. Also, if they don't like the brand of your car, your eye color, your out of state license plate, etc., they can refuse you charging by saying they need it for customer use. I think a dealer network of chargers to be the worst possible solution. Don't know if you've noticed, but the Auto Industry is NOT on Tesla's side.
     
  7. Benz

    Benz Active Member

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    I personally think that Tesla Motors should not get involved with a third party, unless they really have to. I think that Tesla Motors can and must manage on their own. Nobody else exept Tesla Motors should have a say in the Supercharger Network. In the (very) long term this could cause some problems for Tesla Motors (if a third party would be involved). You may think that I am being naive, but that's my personal opinion.
     
  8. kenliles

    kenliles Active Member

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    Starbucks are not franchises- they are nearly all owned and operated by Starbucks- They have never had a single franchise ever and don't have use business model. The exceptions are those that are licensed. Those are in Target stores, airports, larger grocery chains etc.
    Thye never entered into the MacD model- that's one of the reasons their stock carries a premium- they do rent space for some of the stores in malls, etc. of course, so don't own the real-estate there- but they own and operate the stores (except those licensed above)
     
  9. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    I don't think it's a good fit for other reasons (like the fact that it's only in 5 states), but In-n-Out is a private company that owns all their restaurants, they do not franchise.
     
  10. brianstorms

    brianstorms Member

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    I think partnering with fast food joints is actually a bad strategy for Tesla and its Superchargers, in the same way Elon backed out of FWD.us.

    If you look at how much energy, pesticides, and pollution produced and the staggering amount of natural resources that are consumed to produce fast food, it goes against many of the principles that Tesla stands for.
     
  11. c041v

    c041v Member

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    Shot in the dark here... National/State Parks? I'm sure there's some regulatory red tape around that, but I'd think that a significant percentage of road trips people make are to places like this. Makes sense that they would be able to charge up while there. I'm not terribly familiar with the number or proximity of most big National/State parks to anything else, perhaps somebody else could expand on it.

    The only reason I say this is it sounds mutual beneficial for tourism and Tesla to bring "pollution-free" traffic to these areas that people are going to anyways. I doubt Tesla would be able to actually buy the land to install the superchargers, but some sort of lease agreement might be possible.
     
  12. kenliles

    kenliles Active Member

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    good point- although Starbucks lands a bit outside that character
     
  13. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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    If there is a partnership, I would suggest one of the shopping mall companies. Either Westfield, for upscale, or Tanger for "road trip" outlet shopping, or Simon for a combination of the two.
     
  14. Benz

    Benz Active Member

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    I think you are right about that.
    No involvement of a third party please.
     
  15. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    That SBUX is not franchised is an important piece of information. I want to back off on an earlier post - rather, to reiterate that I believe it will be more difficult to deal with set-ups that are franchises than ones that are not.

    On the other hand, I also am not sure that it is the best use of scarce re$ource$ for TM to tie up capital in its own parcels of land. Remember: it already is giving away for free ( at least to S owners) all those electrons coming out of the SCs....so what is the return on that capital to be, and coming from where?
     
  16. kenliles

    kenliles Active Member

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    that's a good point- and asked myself that question. My thoughts lead to a partnership that provides solar power to the partner (say SBUX or MacDs or whatever)- SCTY model, so they produce enough juice (income) that grows the solar revenue beyond just the standalone charging station. It's not a great theory, but one that comes to mind. One of the counters to any partnership though, is the exclusivity issue. If I were a SBUX corporate, I wouldn't be able to cut a deal for Tesla charging only- has to be all EV to make it worthwhile from a marketing, use of brand, use of real-estate perspective. I don't think the partnership currently part of the announcement today, other than perhaps a 'in-talks' status.
     
  17. TI Sailor

    TI Sailor Member

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    Pair the busiest travel days of the year with the busiest holiday shopping days and I believe many malls will not be optimal for SC quick charges. If you travel at night to avoid rush hour traffic like I do, you'll find malls are usually closed, with their restrooms and restaurants locked up tight. That said, they are usually well-lit and have adequate security.

    I think partnering with Walmart would be a viable and profitable option for the following reasons:
    * Walmart is on record as wanting to reduce utility expenditures $1 Billon per year using renewable (read solar) energy
    * Walmart has already teamed up with Solar City for over 100 PV systems in CA
    * Most Walmart stores located near interstates and other major arteries are open 24/7
    * Many stores have restaurants inside, on or near their property
    * Security is good inside and out
    * Electrical infrastructure is in place
    * Holiday parking isn't nearly as big an issue as malls.

    Most objections to this choice surround perceptions, e.g., lower class customers buying non-USA made goods. However, looking ahead 10 years, if TM is successful many middle class families will be driving Gen III vehicles. In all likelihood they will also be shopping at Walmarts.

    Finally, if we're truly interested in reducing our dependence on non-renewable fuel sources, both foreign and domestic, covering Walmart roofs with (Solar City) PV systems would be a giant step in the right direction.
     
  18. kenliles

    kenliles Active Member

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    I hate Walmarts- but those are all good arguments - gotta say though if I had a Tesla, I would avoid Walmart parking lots with a vengeance - much less the 'shopping' experience while charging.
     
  19. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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    I don't object to Wal-Mart per se, as it's a very practical solution, but I don't think it meets the requirements:
    Although I'm at Wal-Mart weekly, it's never a place I want to go.
     
  20. toastypasta

    toastypasta Member

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    Agreed i think this is dumb.
    I also think Elon is very concerned about branding.
    I don't think he would associate the brand with anything that is of lesser quality such as Mcdonald's.
     

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