If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[Ugliest1]

.... then you can always purchase another battery.

For a dollar amount that would be roughly comparable (but probably A BIT more) to replacing a blown engine. If that's not true now, I believe it will be true in the next 5 years or so.

 

[sorka]

Exactly which is quite common.
A Tesla's motor will still perform as good as new with minimal maintenance no matter how old the car is. The battery is something else entirely.

I have 691 reasons why you're completely wrong about this also

If your 100k miles is outside the warranty window and you experience such loss then you can always purchase another battery.

There is no mileage warranty window. It's 8 years unlimited mileage. I thought everyone knew that

 

[sorka]

For a dollar amount that would be roughly comparable (but probably A BIT more) to replacing a blown engine. If that's not true now, I believe it will be true in the next 5 years or so.

Agreed, and if my battery dies 1 day after the warranty expires, I'll be happy to purchase another battery or write the car off and sell it for parts.

 

[Galve2000]

Agreed, and if my battery dies 1 day after the warranty expires, I'll be happy to purchase another battery or write the car off and sell it for parts.

You sir are a truly enlightened being.. I myself would be pissed if my battery died the day after the battery expired.

But I must strive to be more like you... I guess..

 

[SapphireX]

So, besides Tesla Semi, why would Elon goad folk with expectation of 350kW stations? Obviously this wasn't about charging current batteries at 350kW, as that would be a crazy C rate, even if the connectivity infrastructure could take it. Rather what's the max a current battery could take today - is it 150kW, 200, etc? And presuming such, how would this impact battery longevity today, as well as known future batteries

Definite pontification, though based on articles published regarding EV *car* charging stations: The first ‘High-Power fast-charging station’ (150-350 kW) is installed by EVgo and ABB right in Tesla’s backyard

I always assumed that the new 350kW chargers (at least initially) were about increasing the capacity
of individual Superchargers when they would otherwise be derated by their paired charger in use.

 

[JeffK]

There is no mileage warranty window. It's 8 years unlimited mileage. I thought everyone knew that

Obviously

Agreed, and if my battery dies 1 day after the warranty expires, I'll be happy to purchase another battery or write the car off and sell it for parts.

Exactly my point. If you hit your 100k miles 1 day after your 8 year warranty window expires, then you'll have to purchase a new battery. Both time and heat are factors in battery degradation no matter when you hit 100k miles.

 

[sorka]

Obviously

Exactly my point. If you hit your 100k miles 1 day after your 8 year warranty window expires, then you'll have to purchase a new battery. Both time and heat are factors in battery degradation no matter when you hit 100k miles.

If my drivetrain performance suffers while still under warranty, I expect Tesla to honor the warranty and repair it provided the required maintenance has been performed. If when I reach 200K miles at 7 years and my power level has dropped 30%, I'll definitely ask Tesla to fix it. If they can restore power without replacing the battery, then fine. I don't care how they do it but while the drive train is under warranty, I expect that warranty to cover advertised performance just like I would for an ICE car while it's under warranty.

 

[JeffK]

If my drivetrain performance suffers while still under warranty, I expect Tesla to honor the warranty and repair it provided the required maintenance has been performed. If when I reach 200K miles at 7 years and my power level has dropped 30%, I'll definitely ask Tesla to fix it. If they can restore power without replacing the battery, then fine. I don't care how they do it but while the drive train is under warranty, I expect that warranty to cover advertised performance just like I would for an ICE car while it's under warranty.

Of course, 7 years is within your warranty window.

 

[Ugliest1]

I always assumed that the new 350kW chargers (at least initially) were about increasing the capacity
of individual Superchargers when they would otherwise be derated by their paired charger in use.

That's what I thought too.

 

[DB 2]

Just under 7 MW and about 30k miles. More like 95% DC charges.

Is there a way to get this data or do you have to have logged every charge through the REST API in order to tally it?

Check this post and see if that is what you are looking for.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I don't think most reasonable people would expect their vehicle's performance to match, at 100,000+ miles, the same level of performance it had when new. Every vehicle, including an EV, experiences wear and tear on its components. Ball bearings in motors wear over time, as do the gears. Inverter efficiency may drop over time and eventually require the inverter to be replaced. Battery degradation, which is not warranted, will impact the motor's performance. Battery contactors may lose surface area over time, resulting in increased resistance. You have spark plugs, fuel injectors, pistons, and other components in ICE vehicles that also wear over time, resulting in reduced performance due to wear and tear.

 

[bhzmark]

While off topic this tangential topic is actually more interesting. One discouraging data point is car and driver's long term p85d insane car about which they wrote

"Between its initial and final performance tests, our P85D slowed from a 3.3-second zero-to-60-mph sprint to 3.7 seconds. The quarter-mile stretched another half-second beyond the first run of 11.8 seconds." 2015 Tesla Model S P85D - Long-Term Road Test Wrap-Up

 

[Christopher1]

So a P85D is slower now? That's not me being crazy?

 

[JeffK]

So a P85D is slower now? That's not me being crazy?

Well they had a software update that limited the power after so many launches, but they later released one that reversed that under certain conditions (launch mode with the battery warmed up supposedly). That article was in between those two updates.

 

[n2mb_racing]

There was a permanent power reduction in the latest update, so I'm not surprised.

 

[JeffK]

There was a permanent power reduction in the latest update, so I'm not surprised.

I don't remember reading this. Do you have a source?

 

[n2mb_racing]

I don't remember reading this. Do you have a source?

Power limit with latest software update: Data

I'm down 35 HP since the update that "fixed" the power limits. Now they are just permanent.

 

[JeffK]

Power limit with latest software update: Data

I'm down 35 HP since the update that "fixed" the power limits. Now they are just permanent.

From that thread it looks like it doesn't affect all vehicles the same way and newer batteries are not affected.

 

[Doug_G]

Actually it's 70% for as long as I know since the Roadster days (the Roadster being the first lithium ion battery EV in the market).

From Eberhard's post about batteries back in 2006:
"If, for example, you drive 10,000 miles per year at the end of five years you will have around 70 percent of the energy storage capacity of when new."
A Bit About Batteries

The Roadster FAQ had similar bit since October 19, 2007 (before this there was another answer about 500 cycles but did not say the percentage):
"How long do the batteries last?
The battery pack in your Tesla Roadster is expected to maintain good driving performance for about 100,000 miles or five years, whichever comes first. Lithium-ion batteries will degrade slightly over time. Our testing and modeling indicate that a typical Tesla Roadster owner who drives 50,000 miles over five years should have about 70 percent of initial performance levels available. "
Tesla Motors - FAQs
First archived version in 2006:
Tesla Motors - FAQs

In fact for Model S they had this in the FAQ very early on (since removed):
"How many years will the battery last?
Based on testing, Tesla expects the battery to retain approximately 70% of its initial capacity after seven years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km)."
Model S | Frequently Asked Questions | Tesla Motors

And if you want to look at battery manufacturer's datasheet. A 2006 Sanyo UR18650F datasheet (likely similar to what Roadster used) shows a 500 cycle degradation chart (matches with Tesla FAQ about 500 cycles). It starts at 2600mAh (nominal 2500mAh), ends at 1800mAh. 1800mAh/2600mAh = 69.2% or 1800mAh/2500mAh nominal = 72%. This is where the 70% comes from.
https://www.neuhold-elektronik.at/datenblatt/N5644.pdf

These numbers all proved to be very conservative. After 7 years my Roadster had 95% of its initial range remaining.

 

[n2mb_racing]

From that thread it looks like it doesn't affect all vehicles the same way and newer batteries are not affected.

P100D and P90D v2 and v3 are affected. P85D may not be.