The P85D never received a software update limiting power. That was only for the P90D V2/V3.
My P85DL at 40K miles is still hitting 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and is still peaking at 450KW+ @ 90%.
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The P85D never received a software update limiting power. That was only for the P90D V2/V3.
My P85DL at 40K miles is still hitting 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and is still peaking at 450KW+ @ 90%.
The P85D was PROVEN not to be effected. The P100D was not effected by the counters but WAS effected by the very newest software limiting power to 550K from 575KW unless in L+ mode which gives you back 575KW.
Having carefully tracked the performance of all cars I've owned since the mid 90s, I've never had one lose have less power at 200K miles than at 10K miles. Again, it's not that it can't happen. If you lose compression due to scoring or valve issues, you can of course lose power, but a properly maintained car will not normally lose power over 100K or even 200K miles.
Spark plugs are wear items and are usually replaced long before they ever cause a loss in performance.
The rest of the items you mention specific to the Tesla may in fact lower performance over time but would not be factors that would limit ICE performance as they age.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Isn't the key point "properly maintained". The average car on the road may not necessarily be properly maintained.
Right. If not properly maintained, all bets are off. If my P85DL is pulling significantly less power than 450KW @ 90% within the warranty period, I'll be asking Tesla to fix it provided the battery fluid changes are performed as required.
That has been my point the this entire discussion "as long as properly maintained". I've never implied or claimed anything else.
@sorka, how can you "disagree" with factual information as reported. My Roadster had 95% of its initial capacity remaining after 7 years. That is not debatable, I have logs spanning the time period.
For more empirical evidence, you can look at Tom Saxton's Roadster range survey:
Charged EVs | Plug In America research: Tesla Roadster battery longevity exceeds projections
His conclusion: after 100,000 miles Roadster battery packs typically retain 80% to 85% of their original range. This is well in excess of Tesla's original predictions.
He also found that there was no correlation with pack age. The capacity reduction correlated only with pack cycles.
For more empirical evidence, you can look at Tom Saxton's Roadster range survey:
Charged EVs | Plug In America research: Tesla Roadster battery longevity exceeds projections
His conclusion: after 100,000 miles Roadster battery packs typically retain 80% to 85% of their original range. This is well in excess of Tesla's original predictions.
He also found that there was no correlation with pack age. The capacity reduction correlated only with pack cycles.
I know the P85D supposed to not be effected. But it's not as fast as it used to be.
When I got it. I had to put people in it to not spinn the tires. Now, I can do a launch on gravel, and not spinning.. It happened long before 8.0 update. But I can't prove they have reduced the power.
The first time I noticed this, was on a acceleration lane on a highway. Almost hit a car because I was used to the acceleration being insane. (90% soc and normal temp battery).
In the last couple of months, I started to use "max battery power" more and more. (Not waiting for "ready". Stops it at 10 minute mark.). Without, I'm really underpowered..
Before someone think I'm just getting used to the power.
My girlfriends new 60D. Is just as fast as my car in the morning. I can't pass her. When she go past 50kmt and gets more power (because of software limitations). I really have no chance...
I have to wake up 50 minutes before her, go out and put on max battery power. If I want to beat her
So something is changed with the P85D. But it's probably a year ago..
Sorry for the of topic. Just a little frustrated
When I got it. I had to put people in it to not spinn the tires. Now, I can do a launch on gravel, and not spinning.. It happened long before 8.0 update. But I can't prove they have reduced the power.
The first time I noticed this, was on a acceleration lane on a highway. Almost hit a car because I was used to the acceleration being insane. (90% soc and normal temp battery).
In the last couple of months, I started to use "max battery power" more and more. (Not waiting for "ready". Stops it at 10 minute mark.). Without, I'm really underpowered..
Before someone think I'm just getting used to the power.
My girlfriends new 60D. Is just as fast as my car in the morning. I can't pass her. When she go past 50kmt and gets more power (because of software limitations). I really have no chance...
I have to wake up 50 minutes before her, go out and put on max battery power. If I want to beat her
So something is changed with the P85D. But it's probably a year ago..
Sorry for the of topic. Just a little frustrated
If a P85D is slower than a 60D, especially off the line, I'd say there's something seriously wrong with your car.I know the P85D supposed to not be effected. But it's not as fast as it used to be.
When I got it. I had to put people in it to not spinn the tires. Now, I can do a launch on gravel, and not spinning.. It happened long before 8.0 update. But I can't prove they have reduced the power.
The first time I noticed this, was on a acceleration lane on a highway. Almost hit a car because I was used to the acceleration being insane. (90% soc and normal temp battery).
In the last couple of months, I started to use "max battery power" more and more. (Not waiting for "ready". Stops it at 10 minute mark.). Without, I'm really underpowered..
Before someone think I'm just getting used to the power.
My girlfriends new 60D. Is just as fast as my car in the morning. I can't pass her. When she go past 50kmt and gets more power (because of software limitations). I really have no chance...
I have to wake up 50 minutes before her, go out and put on max battery power. If I want to beat her
So something is changed with the P85D. But it's probably a year ago..
Sorry for the of topic. Just a little frustrated
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Either you got lucky or I'm unlucky. My 2010 roadster is down 12.5% with only 19,200 miles on it!
JeffK
Well-Known Member
This is in direct opposition to what Jeff Dahn is saying in the first 8 minutes of
Cycles don't matter as much as a combination of age and temperature, more specifically time at a higher temperature. Unfortunately in the article you cited he only included climate and not average high battery temp.
This is why it's best to limit fast charges and how hard you are driving the vehicle unless the cooling and BMS are setup to handle such temperatures. Jeff Dahn's research has led to better methods of measuring an estimated future battery degradation so hopefully we will see both better cells and a better idea of what the cells can and can't handle instead of conservatively setting an artificial limit.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I'm suggesting the real world data is lacking the most important data points. Time at high temperature measured in the battery itself... not air temp outside.
Well that's the whole point. Tesla controls the temperature of their batteries to avoid exposing them to time at high temperatures. Especially time at very high SOC at high temperatures - that is the reason for the default 90% charge limit.
It's more obvious in the Roadster because you can really hear the cooling system pumps etc. - it will run if necessary even if the car is shut down.
My Model S sounds like a badly tuned 4-banger running at full tilt when supercharging in hot weather, the cooling system is working so hard. I've never heard a Roadster (no pun intended) charging, but I can't imagine it's louder. I'm prepared to be wrong (after all, I'm married
).For the record: S85 built Dec 2013, 'D' pack, 425km @100% when new, last 1.5 years or so ~406km (5% down), then two days ago charged to 100% on a 60A charger and lo & behold, 411km (4% down). I'm not saying it's physically reducing the dendrites... could be a s/w update to the rated miles calculator. Or finally just fully balanced.
Meanwhile, my 1.5-year old iPhone has started to shut itself off when the battery shows 20% left.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Sounds like a jet about to take off in your garage
. It was a bit concerning the first time I heard it.
Sounds like a jet about to take off in your garage
Yeah it's VERY loud. You have no idea how loud until you hear it.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
My Model S sounds like a badly tuned 4-banger running at full tilt when supercharging in hot weather, the cooling system is working so hard. I've never heard a Roadster (no pun intended) charging, but I can't imagine it's louder. I'm prepared to be wrong (after all, I'm married
Glad you're prepared
.The Roadster is far louder - not even close. I've had plenty of time on a Model S (before the X I have) and charged it in similar weather (100+ deg) multiple times. I've heard the fans come on & the S isn't in the same ballpark.
People think something is wrong with the Roadster, it's that loud. And there are numerous first posts from brand new Roadster owners really concerned over the loudness. And we all reassure them that the noise level is normal.
Jeff Dahn's work also suggests a secondary roll off of capacity at some point out in the future of the cells. (I.e. small initial drop, fairly level plateau, accelerated roll off).
As great as Tom Saxton's work is, it is not enough to prove or disprove Jeff Dahn's hypothesis. For us to compare the accelerated lab testing to real world (and I agree average pack temperature during testing would also help) we'd need the same effort to have started from day one and be ongoing until today.
If the hypothesis of a secondary roll-off is true, extrapolating a fairly plateaued central portion of the graph out into t = infinity, could be misleading (a point the charged EV article rightly points out)
Aside from this we also cannot rule out a natural correlation between young / (and correlated) low mileage packs and manufacturing improvements over the production run. Later cells which are younger and have lower mileage might have simply been better from the get go. In a perfect world the data would have been based on deltas not absolutes.
Any way I'm glad Tesla have taken on Jeff Dahn to help them with this stuff.
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