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I'm done with Traffic Light Control

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,862
7,051
Snohomish, WA
People who want fully autonomous, so they can sit back and be driven anywhere, anytime, without any interaction should consider calling an Uber/Lyft, or just handing their keys to a friend or family member.
What makes you think we like people? And what makes you think people like us? :p

Imagine what an autonomous camper van would be like.

You get in it at midnight and have it drive you while you slept, and you'd wake up in a new destination. This is assuming the whole snake charger thing become a reality.

Imagine you want to bike while using your camper van as a support vehicle to sleep, and relax in. You could go bike to some destination where the van meets you, and the next day to do it all over again. Then on the return trip you could drive the entire way if you wanted to.

Imagine all the time, and money that soccer moms/dad would save not having to shuffle their offspring all around town.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
401
210
NJ
does the console tell you to do this?
Not sure. I reviewed the owner’s manual, and read forums for the six weeks between order and delivery, so I knew.
If you’re considering the FSD option, I’d recommend doing the same. I left the autonomous features off for a few weeks after getting car, then adding one at a time so I understood each one individually before adding the next.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
401
210
NJ
In the little pop-up

It also gives a warning when approaching and needing to tap the accelerator to continue.
Yup, but if you set it up a few weeks ago, you might have forgotten. The pop ups are barely legible as they're in a small font (reading gets tougher when you get older) at the bottom of the screen. When I first got the car, I had to ask passenger what the warnings said.
 

M109Rider

Active Member
Apr 8, 2018
1,625
1,986
Kitchener, Ontario
I experienced a situation where a light changed to yellow, the car proceeded into the intersection and then slammed on the brakes and stopped in the middle of the intersection. Sigh.
Never had anything like that occur to me. Is this on the new update, or before. ?
Did it stop the car?
Don’t suppose you have video from the car to share.
 

swt2c

Member
Jan 31, 2021
85
45
USA
Never had anything like that occur to me. Is this on the new update, or before. ?
Did it stop the car?
Don’t suppose you have video from the car to share.
It was probably a month or so ago, so probably the previous release or the one before it.
It stopped the car before I was able to hit the accelerator. Luckily it was later in the evening and there wasn't anyone behind me.
Unfortunately, no I didn't have a USB connected (just ordered one).
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
401
210
NJ
the car proceeded into the intersection and then slammed on the brakes and stopped in the middle of the intersection

I found that when the car wants to slow/stop… if it didn’t appear to be justified (or was bad judgement)… it’s easy to override with a gentle tap on the pedal.

Where was your right foot???
Was it resting on the accelerator, or off to the side?

Coming to a complete stop, from 20-30 MPH takes a second or two (no evidence, just a guess). Realizing what’s happening, that is, as soon as the car begins to slow, is, or should be instantaneous (less than a second). Pulsing the accelerator takes far less time than stopping a car

As soon as you realized the car was attempting to brake in the intersection, did your natural instinct kick in? Did you press the accelerator?
I wasn’t there, I don’t know the conditions, and I don’t know anything other than what you wrote, but to be honest, anyone using the autonomous features has to be 100% ready to take control (including hands on wheel and foot on accelerator).
I find it hard to believe that a car can come to a stop, in the middle of the intersection, without driver attempting to override.
What were you doing while the car was stopping? Did you attempt to override?

The difference between “jamming on the brakes and coming to a complete stop” …and … “it started to slow but I overrode car’s mistake, it wasn’t a big deal… has everything to do with driver attention and readiness.

if I had to guess, every 10 or 15 minutes on the highway, my car will get confused and start to slow. If I let it, the car might come to a stop, I have no way of knowing what would happen, because my awareness of the traffic conditions allows me to the conclude that the car make a mistake, I gently tap the pedal, and move on.

So I ask, not trying to be a troll, what were you doing while the car was stopping? Was your foot in the pedal? The split second it began to brake did your gut instinct tell you to accelerate? Did you tap the pedal?

Letting it come to a complete stop is as much a fault of the car, as it is the (presumably) inattentive driver. Driving cars with the autonomous features is like driving with a teenage driver. They are going to be making mistakes, it’s the experienced drivers responsibility to step in override or instruct.


Leaving the foot of the pedal with autopilot is as safe as taking hands of the wheel
 

swt2c

Member
Jan 31, 2021
85
45
USA
I found that when the car wants to slow/stop… if it didn’t appear to be justified (or was bad judgement)… it’s easy to override with a gentle tap on the pedal.

Where was your right foot???
Was it resting on the accelerator, or off to the side?

Coming to a complete stop, from 20-30 MPH takes a second or two (no evidence, just a guess). Realizing what’s happening, that is, as soon as the car begins to slow, is, or should be instantaneous (less than a second). Pulsing the accelerator takes far less time than stopping a car

As soon as you realized the car was attempting to brake in the intersection, did your natural instinct kick in? Did you press the accelerator?
I wasn’t there, I don’t know the conditions, and I don’t know anything other than what you wrote, but to be honest, anyone using the autonomous features has to be 100% ready to take control (including hands on wheel and foot on accelerator).
I find it hard to believe that a car can come to a stop, in the middle of the intersection, without driver attempting to override.
What were you doing while the car was stopping? Did you attempt to override?

The difference between “jamming on the brakes and coming to a complete stop” …and … “it started to slow but I overrode car’s mistake, it wasn’t a big deal… has everything to do with driver attention and readiness.

if I had to guess, every 10 or 15 minutes on the highway, my car will get confused and start to slow. If I let it, the car might come to a stop, I have no way of knowing what would happen, because my awareness of the traffic conditions allows me to the conclude that the car make a mistake, I gently tap the pedal, and move on.

So I ask, not trying to be a troll, what were you doing while the car was stopping? Was your foot in the pedal? The split second it began to brake did your gut instinct tell you to accelerate? Did you tap the pedal?

Letting it come to a complete stop is as much a fault of the car, as it is the (presumably) inattentive driver. Driving cars with the autonomous features is like driving with a teenage driver. They are going to be making mistakes, it’s the experienced drivers responsibility to step in override or instruct.


Leaving the foot of the pedal with autopilot is as safe as taking hands of the wheel
To be honest with you, I don't remember. It's possible that I intervened, but I don't recall. I do remember that I had some stuff sitting on the passenger seat and it all flew onto the floor, so it was a very aggressive braking scenario.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
401
210
NJ
To be honest with you, I don't remember. It's possible that I intervened, but I don't recall. I do remember that I had some stuff sitting on the passenger seat and it all flew onto the floor, so it was a very aggressive braking scenario.

Bizarrely, we’re all guinea pigs in a beta test, that were paying through the nose to participate in.
Glad you’re okay
 
When traffic light control came to my car, I gave it a shot several times over about half a dozen local drives. I wasn’t impressed with the way it operated though I give credit to Tesla for creating SOMETHING during this dearth of meaningful firmware updates. Yes, the workarounds are easy, but I no longer bother with it…I found no added value and have switched (tapped?) it off unlikely to ever be returned to. My wife’s opinion of it was far less charitable. Yet another advertised feature that continues to disappoint.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
401
210
NJ
and ignores green lights entirely
Not sure if I like that idea.
There are a million reasons why something can be in the intersection, not the least of which are emergency vehicles, joggers, cyclists, or bad drivers.
I prefer the car to require confirmation that it’s safe.
Automatic driving is okay for limited access roads, or traveling without cross traffic, but do you really want the car to be barreling through an intersection, only to be stopped by a red or yellow light?
Pulsing the foot is a small price to pay to reduce, or eliminate, t-bone accidents.
 

eaglesrest

Member
Jul 3, 2021
11
8
UK
Not sure I can agree. There is no logical reason for the car to stop at a green light, and the risk of the driver failing to override, or override in-time is more likely to cause an issue for other drivers than the junction.

Yes, junctions can present hazards, but hazards are present at all times when semi-autonomous assist systems are active, and the driver has to be responsible for anticipating and responding to those hazard as appropriate.

I've used the BMW system for nearly a year and it is naturally intuitive and makes for a mostly more relaxing drive while improving safety. The Tesla system to require override on a green light is so counter intuitive to anything a driver will have learnt or experienced over X years of driving, and will not be where the system ultimately goes I guess.

I've not used the Tesla system on UK roads yet, but have watched a few YT videos and it looks like more work than its worth at present so I'll probably skip the option for now. Excited about the future capabilities though :)
 
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haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
401
210
NJ
and the driver has to be responsible for anticipating and responding to those hazard as appropriate.

I've used the BMW system for nearly a year and it is naturally intuitive and makes for a mostly more relaxing drive while improving safety. The Tesla system to require override on a green light is so counter intuitive to anything a driver will have learnt

The risks at an intersection are magnified. An ambulance or fire truck arriving at an intersection can be heard 15-20 seconds before a camera can see it. Some intersections are blind, that is, you can’t see traffic until you’re in the intersection, especially if large vehicles are on the side of the road. Many times I’ve heard emergency vehicles, but not seen them until they were practically in the intersection. If I can’t see them, it’s a good bet the car can’t.
Ever see a funeral precision go through a red light? Can a car figure that out?
Is a pulse of the foot such a big ask? Is it so inconvenient? (Lewis and Clark, Magellan, and Neil Armstrong would scoff at these threads :) )

Car asks “whuydda’ think?” and a slight pulse of the foot says “good boy!“ (it’s like walking a well trained golden retriever)

It takes a week to get used to it, it’s now second nature….
hear the ding, pulse the foot…Pavlovian
 
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