I'm excited from the day one and am more & more excited. Digest the comparison! Change is a natural phenomenon-look ahead.

[ecarfan]

@tashtibet thank you so much! Great work and appreciate your updated chart.

Suggestion: maybe there are no reliable numbers yet, but turning radius is missing from the chart. I searched for the R1T turning radius but can’t find a number, not even on the Rivian website, which is weird. That tells me that it is not that great. For the Ford, the official spec sheet doesn’t list the turning radius. The carspecs.org website lists numbers for various versions of the F-150, the lowest is 23.9 ft so you could use that number.

So what is the CT turning radius? I can’t find a number. Surely one of the new owners could measure it and given that the CT has rear wheel steering, which its competitors do not have, it will beat them handily.

Based on your chart, the CT beats the competition in almost every area except immediate availability. I think it will be many months before anyone can get a Dual Motor version.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Oh Tesla Fanboys picking and choosing.

Can you explain how the CT doubles the Lightnings Cargo and how the a lot smaller Rivian does the same with only a 4ft bed? Is this real? Smh

Next to Range Extender should be **+$16,000**

For your “AP” section the Lightning has Co-Pilot which is the equivalent. Blue cruise is not a Beta but you failed to put that in there. So yes it does have it.

No Frunk size comparison?
No 365 camera comparison?
Apple CarPlay/Android Auto?
No tailgate step comparison?
Instrument cluster comparison?
Interior room dimensions?
No sensor comparison?
Rear glass window opening comparison?
Under seat storage comparison?

No Panaromic roof for the Lightning? Are you serious The Lightning has one and a sunroof that functions.

Lightnings 0-60 is 3.8 seconds but nice try making the CT looks faster https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-lariat-first-test-0-60-review/amp/

BTW, you are also forgetting Tesla’s Destination Charge with your pricing. The others are already included.

 

[HitchHiker71]

@tashtibet great to see you corrected the Bluecruise omission, and yes the Ford configurator can be a bit confusing without a doubt. Personally I don't think the cargo measurements are entirely accurate, but I'm not sure how they are being measured? What all does cargo capacity include for each vehicle? I also don't see a dedicated frunk row - and in fairness I think a frunk row should be separated out given the cargo capacity of the frunk is a notable deficiency with the CT when compared to the Rivian/F150L.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Oh Tesla Fanboys picking and choosing.

Can you explain how the CT doubles the Lightnings Cargo and how the a lot smaller Rivian does the same with only a 4ft bed? Is this real? Smh

Next to Range Extender should be **+$16,000**

For your “AP” section the Lightning has Co-Pilot which is the equivalent. Blue cruise is not a Beta but you failed to put that in there. So yes it does have it.

No Frunk size comparison?
No 365 camera comparison?
Apple CarPlay/Android Auto?
No tailgate step comparison?
Instrument cluster comparison?
Interior room dimensions?
No sensor comparison?
Rear glass window opening comparison?
Under seat storage comparison?

No Panaromic roof for the Lightning? Are you serious The Lightning has one and a sunroof that functions.

Lightnings 0-60 is 3.8 seconds but nice try making the CT looks faster https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-lariat-first-test-0-60-review/amp/

BTW, you are also forgetting Tesla’s Destination Charge with your pricing. The others are already included.

Great list here for consideration. I must admit not having a sunroof is something I'd miss. While the glass roof is nice in certain respects - in my 2018 RAM 1500 I routinely pop the moonroof open and open the rear slidiing glass window to get some air moving in the passenger compartment without having the annoying air buffetting that cracking the door windows often causes (in our MY LR for example). The Fords' panoramic sunroof is a very nice feature - and IMHO superior to the permanent glass roof on the Tesla vehicles because you can actually use it for it's intended use - unlike the permanent glass roofs that don't really serve any useful purpose IMHO - other than to improve headroom.

 

[ecarfan]

So what is the CT turning radius? I can’t find a number.

The Top Gear video review does show the CT doing a pretty impressive U-turn that my Model X cannot match. Note that the Top Gear driver chose to do that at an intersection clearly marked with a no left turn sign. Though it does not say “No U Turn”.

 

[zoomer0056]

The Top Gear video review does show the CT doing a pretty impressive U-turn that my Model X cannot match.

View attachment 996286View attachment 996287View attachment 996288

The first pic shows a popular and annoying turn by swinging wide right before executing the left turn. It's my pet peeve for drivers of all vehicles.

 

[ecarfan]

The first pic shows a popular and annoying turn by swinging wide right before executing the left turn. It's my pet peeve for drivers of all vehicles.

When I’m doing a U-turn like that and know that to make it I need as much space as possible I always start near the right edge of my lane. In the turn shown in the video, I agree with you that the driver went to far and significantly into the lane to his right. He probably wasn’t sure if he could successfully make the U-turn, but it appears that he had 1 to 2 ft of clearance from the curb on the far side and could have stayed in his lane when starting his turn.

I remain impressed at the apparent turning radius of the CT.

 

[Cheburashka]

Honestly, the Tesla fanboys are all in shambles.

Trying to prove the CT is marginally "better" than other trucks released 2 years ago that you can buy off the lot today with some tables. Sad and pathetic.

 

[ecarfan]

Well, I don’t feel sad or pathetic. To me the spec comparison shows that in many areas the CT is superior, but not in all areas. If I was in the truck market right now, I would choose the CT. Yes, I would have to wait for it, that is obvious.

 

[EvilNuff]

Honestly, the Tesla fanboys are all in shambles.

Trying to prove the CT is marginally "better" than other trucks released 2 years ago that you can buy off the lot today with some tables. Sad and pathetic.

Not all of us. I'm a Tesla fanboy for sure, owner, CT res holder, stock owner, etc. I still call out the CT as shitting the bed on delivery event. As originally promised it was a strong competitor for ICE trucks. Now as it is, its worse than its EV competitors for most people's use cases and not even in the same ballpark as ICE trucks. If you want to tow regularly it isn't even in the conversation compared to ICE trucks because of the garbage range towing.

 

[henderrj]

Not all of us. I'm a Tesla fanboy for sure, owner, CT res holder, stock owner, etc. I still call out the CT as shitting the bed on delivery event. As originally promised it was a strong competitor for ICE trucks. Now as it is, its worse than its EV competitors for most people's use cases and not even in the same ballpark as ICE trucks. If you want to tow regularly it isn't even in the conversation compared to ICE trucks because of the garbage range towing.

I am, as are many an ex Tesla fanboy. The company itself drives me absolutely crazy, driven by the juvenile approach of its primary driver. But it's cars are so significantly different from anything else I've owned in my 50 some years of driving, that I still find myself buying them.

I think the cybertruck falls in that category. It has advantages nobody else has even thought of, or at least thought of producing. The technology is way better than anything else I've seen. As to the towing range, sure, it's going to cost you an arm and a leg to get a good towing vehicle, but it is possible. It is not a great sales driver, so Tesla isn't going to give it as much attention.

The prices will stay high as long as Tesla can sell as many vehicles as it makes. Additionally, they clearly are not able to ramp the 4680 battery at the rate they had hoped. That must be the major slowdown in my opinion. But it's just a guess. Once 4680 production is achieved as hoped, and the cybertruck processes are smoothed out, I think Tesla will slowly start easing the pricing down.

The dramatic pricing drops that they did, which were obviously for PR, will probably not happen with the cybertruck. Even Elon doesn't want to throw away money for no reason! They'll be reduced however as much as is needed to keep the sales level with production. And, it's going to sell like hotcakes for a long time.

 

[ecarfan]

If you want to tow regularly it isn't even in the conversation compared to ICE trucks because of the garbage range towing.

All tow vehicles, no matter what they use for energy, use far more energy when towing at highway because of greatly increased aerodynamic drag (at speeds below around 30mph rolling resistance is a bigger factor). When towing ICE vehicles get much worse MPG and EV vehicles get much higher kWh/m. The physics is the same for all tow vehicles.

Of course ICE vehicles can refuel in 5 minutes whereas a Tesla will require roughly 40 minutes to go from about 10% to 90% battery charge.

That is the ICE advantage; a time saving when refueling compared to recharging.

I’ve been towing a 2000 lb RV trailer for 6 years and tens of thousands of miles with my Model X. With the Supercharger network available just about everywhere (but not absolutely everywhere) I find towing to be easy. 6 years ago I had to do some careful planning for some routes. But I stopped doing that years ago because the Supercharger network is so extensive in North America. I still have to keep my towing range limitations in mind, but it’s no big deal.

Some might reply that a 2000 lb trailer is ”nothing”. But if I was towing a 5000 lb trailer it would still be easy; at highway speeds it’s about aerodynamics, not weight. A 5000 lb trailer could produce less drag than a 2000 lb trailer, and vice versa.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The dramatic pricing drops that they did, which were obviously for PR, will probably not happen with the cybertruck. Even Elon doesn't want to throw away money for no reason! They'll be reduced however as much as is needed to keep the sales level with production. And, it's going to sell like hotcakes for a long time.

If you're referring to the pricing drops for the M3/MY over the past year or so - they were not for PR. Musk himself has literally said these pricing drops were to increase demand for the products. He clearly said that even with the substantial price drops - with interest rates at current levels - the net car payments don't change at all - and that the vast majority of buyers care primarily about the payment affordability - not the price of the vehicle. The prices were dropped precisely to offset interest rate increases and keep the average payments roughly the same to keep demand up for the products. Tesla started seeing product demand fall, which they can see via daily reports (again something Musk has repeatedly stated), and adjusted pricing to keep product demand up for their best selling models.

 

[EvilNuff]

...
I think the cybertruck falls in that category. It has advantages nobody else has even thought of, or at least thought of producing. The technology is way better than anything else I've seen. ...

I agree pretty much whole heartedly with everything you said except the above statement. I don't really see any advantages on the CT. I actually think for the price that the R1T and 150L are better vehicles (other than access to the supercharger network). The other new technologies aren't advantages IMO when you consider that they absolutely contributed to the price increase.

I have only driven steer by wire once and hated it, I absolutely might change my mind but if you told me that it cost 10k or even 5k more for that feature I would say that's a waste. Rear wheel steering I hate, it adds more cost and repair cost for a feature that I don't need as I am well used to turn radius of trucks. 48V doesn't actually give us anything other than supposedly cheaper construction costs which given the price I find hard to believe (I could well be wrong here but there is just no way to know). Etc, etc. Right now the only real advantage that the Cybertruck has over its 2 competitors is the super charger network and the much better maps system.

The technology isn't better it is just newer and different. Now time may show that it is better but just blanketly stating as such is pretty silly.

 

[ecarfan]

I have only driven steer by wire once and hated it

What vehicle did you drive? And did it have variable ratio steering?

 

[afadeev]

What vehicle did you drive? And did it have variable ratio steering?

Infiniti Q50 has had it for a decade. Few noticed or cared.

Electric Feel: Nissan Digitizes Steering, But the Wheel Remains

So long, mechanical steering linkages. Hello, steer-by-wire.

www.caranddriver.com

Lexus RZ450e has it now. And a yoke. And variable steering ratio. And Digital rearview mirror.
And $519/month lease payment.
Go test drive it tomorrow, if interested in tech:

2024 Lexus RZ - Luxury Electric SUV | Lexus.com

All electric. All Lexus. The all-electric Lexus RZ 300e and 450e are bold expressions of innovation, as only Lexus could imagine.

www.lexus.com

 

[HitchHiker71]

Infiniti Q50 has had it for a decade. Few noticed or cared.

Electric Feel: Nissan Digitizes Steering, But the Wheel Remains

So long, mechanical steering linkages. Hello, steer-by-wire.

www.caranddriver.com

Lexus RZ450e has it now. And a yoke. And variable steering ratio. And Digital rearview mirror.
And $519/month lease payment.
Go test drive it tomorrow, if interested in tech:

2024 Lexus RZ - Luxury Electric SUV | Lexus.com

All electric. All Lexus. The all-electric Lexus RZ 300e and 450e are bold expressions of innovation, as only Lexus could imagine.

www.lexus.com

Don't tell the Tesla fanboys! Their response will be , yeah but is it 48v steer by wire? Because that's makes all the difference in the world for the owner right? Tongue in cheek reply - as the primary beneficiary of 48v is the manufacturer via reduced cost (less wiring, smaller components, etc.).

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Infiniti Q50 has had it for a decade. Few noticed or cared.

Electric Feel: Nissan Digitizes Steering, But the Wheel Remains

So long, mechanical steering linkages. Hello, steer-by-wire.

www.caranddriver.com

Lexus RZ450e has it now. And a yoke. And variable steering ratio. And Digital rearview mirror.
And $519/month lease payment.
Go test drive it tomorrow, if interested in tech:

2024 Lexus RZ - Luxury Electric SUV | Lexus.com

All electric. All Lexus. The all-electric Lexus RZ 300e and 450e are bold expressions of innovation, as only Lexus could imagine.

www.lexus.com

The Lexus is so advanced it only has 196 miles of range on 20" wheels... and you can't supercharger it more than 3 times in one day or the battery will limit your charging speed.

HOW FREQUENTLY CAN I DC FAST CHARGE?​

In order to ensure effective charging and preserve battery health over the life of the vehicle, please plan no more than three DC fast charging sessions per day. After three 10–80% state of charge DC charging sessions, a threshold can be reached, which will result in DC charging speed being significantly reduced.

Over time, the battery will gradually recover. One additional high-speed DC-charge can be completed after approximately 6 hours, with complete recovery occurring over the next day. During the recovery time, vehicle driving performance and Level 1 and Level 2 AC-charging capability remain unchanged.

 

[E90alex]

The Lexus is so advanced it only has 196 miles of range on 20" wheels... and you can't supercharger it more than 3 times in one day or the battery will limit your charging speed.

HOW FREQUENTLY CAN I DC FAST CHARGE?​

In order to ensure effective charging and preserve battery health over the life of the vehicle, please plan no more than three DC fast charging sessions per day. After three 10–80% state of charge DC charging sessions, a threshold can be reached, which will result in DC charging speed being significantly reduced.

Over time, the battery will gradually recover. One additional high-speed DC-charge can be completed after approximately 6 hours, with complete recovery occurring over the next day. During the recovery time, vehicle driving performance and Level 1 and Level 2 AC-charging capability remain unchanged.

Sure, but doesn’t change the fact that Tesla was not the first to market with steer by wire despite some people wanting to claim it as a Tesla innovation.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Sure, but doesn’t change the fact that Tesla was not the first to market with steer by wire despite some people wanting to claim it as a Tesla innovation.

Name one pickup truck in the global market that has steer by wire? The Lexus "SUV" that looks like it's on a golf sized platform above isn't even in the same class. I have a feeling this innovation is going to piss off some of the stale, legacy automakers. It doesn't really matter, if their unions get what they want they will innovate themselves out of business.