ucmndd
Well-Known Member
No, it's not. Not by more than a mile or two. Suggesting a 5-10% fluctuation in a matter of days is "normal" is wrong. Full stop.
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Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]
- Thread starter HMARTINPT
- Start date
No, it's not. Not by more than a mile or two. Suggesting a 5-10% fluctuation in a matter of days is "normal" is wrong. Full stop.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The BMS (Battery Management System) doesn't have a fool-proof way to determine the exact state of charge. It uses a hybrid system that tracks the current in and out of the battery and keeps a running total. Then, at very high and very low states of charge it re-calibrates based on temperature and battery voltage. It also incorporates voltage drop at high load (for example, if the car is floored) as another variable. This recalibration process can cause the estimated capacity to jump around a bit, particularly on a battery that is somewhat degraded from time, cycles and high heat (which can cause chemical changes within the battery that cause it to not behave exactly as predicted by the algorithms used by the BMS).
So, yes, that kind of fluctuation is to be expected, especially on such an early Model S (2012). Saying otherwise shows a lack of understanding of how the BMS estimates the battery capacity.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I know how the BMS works.
No, it is not. Saying something incorrect over and over again that is not supported by any available evidence doesn’t make it correct. We have lots of people on this forum that actually own these cars and have detailed their experiences over millions of miles. Your assumptions about how high mileage cars should behave are pure speculation and do not line up with any reported experience. On the contrary, the symptom you insist is normal - which in this thread led directly to the replacement of the battery by Tesla under warranty - is the leading indicator of failure.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Sometimes the estimation of battery capacity at full charge jumps up, I've already had that happen on my Model 3 even though it only had 3,000 miles and less than 4 months of use. It's just an estimation. Do I think my battery capacity actually increased? Of course not, it was just a fluctuation in the BMS's estimation of total capacity which will vary with different conditions (involving temperature, state of charge and length of time between previous deep discharges and full charges).
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
By 5% or more? Definitely not. That’s the point.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Over a 10 day period? Yes, it's just an estimation. 1-2% could have been an actual loss of capacity due to continuing degradation. The rest is well within the accuracy of the SOC estimations. But I can see I'm not going to convince you of that so believe whatever you like.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I will eat my hat if you can find a single additional Model 3 owner on this forum that has observed a 15+ mile swing in reported range at 100% SoC over the course of 10 days without a suspected or confirmed battery failure. It doesn’t happen.
The only thing it takes to convince me is evidence. Your extraordinary claims are contrary to all available evidence.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I didn't imply any had, it was on a 2012 Model S! And the Model 3 has only been available for one year. And it was 14 miles, not 15.
This is getting really old.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
You implied yours had.
Not sure where we went off the rails there.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
No my Model 3 jumped only 2 miles. My point was it can jump up or down because it's only an estimation.
Battery degradation is perhaps not as bad as mental degradation. I'm checking out of here before I get some of that. Because it's not covered by warranty either! And I'm not about to rely on a goodwill fix.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Lol, I said like 2 pages ago a couple miles here and there is normal. A couple miles is a reasonable margin or error.
5-10 times that is not. There is no reported evidence of that behavior being normal in this forum, covering millions of miles of ownership experience across thousands of cars over 7 years. Your insistence to the contrary is ignorant of reality and based on nothing more sophisticated than your assumptions of how things should be. Evidence matters.
gilscales
Banned
WOW!, just wow! this thread had degraded faster than the OP's battery! and its only because of one poster here (who's name the mods have asked us not to say or they will lock this thread)
I am really curious about the actual fault that Tesla found in @HMARTINPT battery and hope he can report back with that info before this thread gets closed by an action that one poster keeps taking that would be likened to a monster under a bridge that preys on small children.
Mods please take note that no names were mentioned in a derogatory fashion and I did take the appropriate precautions that were advised!
I am really curious about the actual fault that Tesla found in @HMARTINPT battery and hope he can report back with that info before this thread gets closed by an action that one poster keeps taking that would be likened to a monster under a bridge that preys on small children.
Mods please take note that no names were mentioned in a derogatory fashion and I did take the appropriate precautions that were advised!
Just to reiterate the correct facts and math. Tesla recalibrated the battery and reported a 100% charge at 212. Less than a week later it was at 195 @ a 100% charge. A difference of 17 miles and an 8.1% decrease in range. Sorry I was off by a few decimal points earlier but at least I can say when I am wrong about something?
The bigger issue here is who wants to come out to their vehicle with that type of change when the car had just been at the service center for that reason. The other major factor was breaking down on the side of the road with the range indicator having 16 miles left on it. Both of those reasons are preliminary factors when a battery is about to fail. Thanks again to those who gave me the advice to just keep on driving the vehicle until a fault occurs. I can't thank you enough. It saved me the cost of purchasing a $25,000 dollar battery.
I also wanted to thank Tesla for being diligent throughout the process and not just disregarding my claims. My wife and I are now getting prepared to lay down a deposit on the Roadster. Who wants to go over 250mph when it comes in? Great customer service will allow Tesla to continue to strive as a company in the future.
Hey, now! Standing up for all of us 2017 Model 3 owners! #WeDoExist and #TheFirst2000.
For the record, my 2013 model S never varied its estimated range shown by the BMS by more than a mile or two just like your Model 3. I would also have assumed my battery had a fault if I saw a decrease of even 10 miles over the course of 2 weeks, especially if that occurred after Tesla had re-balanced the pack. That would have been a very unusual rate change for even an older S.
This is good news for Tesla owners, and a long overdue change in Tesla corporate policy. I bought a P90D in 9/2015 and a few months later they found the main battery was defective. I asked how long it would take to get a replacement, and was told that was not how Tesla did it. They refused to give me a new battery months after I'd taken delivery of a $120,000 car. Instead, they said that they would put a 85Kw loaner battery in, and send my battery from the east coast to the west coast to be re-manufactured, then send it back, remove the loaner battery and install my battery. I said that was completely ridiculous, twice as much work for them, and please just give me a new battery. No. They explained that they wanted to keep each car with its original components.
I asked how long it would take and they said 4 to 6 weeks, "depending on how badly backed-up the remanufacturing process is". Every month I called to get the status of my battery and there was no info. Finally, at the end of 6 months I got a call saying it was being shipped, so I took my car in and they made the switch, but they couldn't release the car to me. Turned out that when they inserted it in my car they ran some diagnostics and found that it was defective in another way, as it wouldn't hold a charge. Why they didn't run the diagnostics before shipping the battery leaves me speechless.
By now after waiting 6 months I was furious and demanded a new battery versus their initial plan to re-manufacture it a 2nd time. People in the service center were terrific, but it required the service manager having to deal with management in CA and get the equivalent of a papal dispensation to have them send a new 90Kw battery. By now I was so skeptical, I wondered if it was a new unit or someone else's old battery. But, as it turned out it was indeed a new battery because it's design had changed and to put a new style battery in my car required an adapter kit which they'd forgotten to send, so that took more days.
With all that said, it's really good to hear that they finally came to their senses and are now simply replacing defective batteries without subjecting owners to any hassle.
I'm very happy Tesla finally saw the issue and is replacing the battery. I believe your persistence and clearly laying out the facts helped turn this around.
Based on all the facts and numbers if was clear to me that it was a failure, not normal degradation. But all speculation is irrelevant now that Tesla has officially admitted the battery fault. I'm glad it turned out positiv.
Based on all the facts and numbers if was clear to me that it was a failure, not normal degradation. But all speculation is irrelevant now that Tesla has officially admitted the battery fault. I'm glad it turned out positiv.
I agree! I hope this thread remains open long enough for the conclusion!
Will do. I am keeping my fingers crossed for a 90 like others have said they received on this site.
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