Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]

[HMARTINPT]

The 139 miles is perfectly consistent with all the information on your screen shot and the information you provided. What doesn't make sense is why it died with 16 miles remaining. Did it give you any warning before it died, like slow down, or any kind of indication? You say Tesla hasn't given you a straight answer, so what did they say? Are you still driving the car right now?

Please include the math on that because by my calculations and others on this thread it shouldn't be near 139. Yes the car stated to slow down which I did and the energy consumption as well as the range indicator said i had more than enough miles to reach the SC.
Tesla's only response so far is that they won't cover degradation even though they are aware about the range indicator being at 16 and the car only getting 139 miles with a trip charge of 209. The car is actually at the Tesla service center right now but they informed me even before I brought it in that they wouldn't be covering the battery under warranty.

 

[Tube Guy]

I will reiterate that my SOC started at 209 and the car stopped at 139 in one drive. The car actually stated that I had 16 miles left on the range. I am telling the whole story with the information that I previously stated about when we broke down. I hope the same never happens to you!!

Depends on how you got to the 139 miles. Freeway? Around town? I can see how driving stop and go it could happen. Easy.

 

[HMARTINPT]

Depends on how you got to the 139 miles. Freeway? Around town? I can see how driving stop and go it could happen. Easy.

we were on the freeway the entire time. please do the math on what the car actually did or you can refer to other calculations on this thread. thanks

 

[shred86]

The car is actually at the Tesla service center right now but they informed me even before I brought it in that they wouldn't be covering the battery under warranty.

Hm, are you sure they didn't say "we don't cover battery degradation under the battery warranty"? Because they definitely cover battery issues under the battery warranty, but it's pretty clear they don't cover battery degradation for Model S/X. I'm not even sure how they could even make such a statement before they've even looked at the vehicle though.

Really it just comes down to whether or not Tesla finds an issue with your battery. If there is something wrong, you should be covered under the battery warranty. If they find nothing wrong, they are not obligated to replace anything. Unfortunately battery degradation is a grey area because what defines "wrong" in terms of battery degradation? A sudden decrease in capacity, definitely. A slow degradation like you've been experiencing, although faster than the "average", is a grey area because it depends on so many variables. A person living in a cooler climate that charges to ~70%, always leaves it plugged in, has a fairly short commute, is going to have a much different experience with battery degradation compared to someone who lives in a hot climate, charges to 100% frequently and leaves it there, doesn't keep it plugged in, and has larger depths of charge. I'm not saying you're doing either, just trying to illustrate it's hard to make a comparison. You really need to pull the total capacity off the CAN bus to know how much battery degradation you've experienced. Using displayed range is not an accurate way to estimate. As for the car shutting down at 16 miles, absolutely abnormal but doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with the battery (although there is a good chance something could be wrong).

All that to say, I'd be very surprised if Tesla is trying to pull a fast one on you and trying to save the company $20k (or however much a battery replacement cost). Even with my absolutely terrible experience dealing with their customer service, I guess I still have faith in the fact they'll honor their warranty. Please do let us know what the end result is as I'm curious to find out what their assessment is of your battery and what they choose to do about it. Best of luck!

Edit: Here's a post I made showing an example of how big the difference can be between displayed range versus the actual total capacity (kWh) for comparing battery degradation.

 

[HMARTINPT]

Hm, are you sure they didn't say "we don't cover battery degradation under the battery warranty"? Because they definitely cover battery issues under the battery warranty, but it's pretty clear they don't cover battery degradation for Model S/X. I'm not even sure how they could even make such a statement before they've even looked at the vehicle though.

Really it just comes down to whether or not Tesla finds an issue with your battery. If there is something wrong, you should be covered under the battery warranty. If they find nothing wrong, they are not obligated to replace anything. Unfortunately battery degradation is a grey area because what defines "wrong" in terms of battery degradation? A sudden decrease in capacity, definitely. A slow degradation like you've been experiencing, although faster than the "average", is a grey area because it depends on so many variables. A person living in a cooler climate that charges to ~70%, always leaves it plugged in, has a fairly short commute, is going to have a much different experience with battery degradation compared to someone who lives in a hot climate, charges to 100% frequently and leaves it there, doesn't keep it plugged in, and has larger depths of charge. I'm not saying you're doing either, just trying to illustrate it's hard to make a comparison. You really need to pull the total capacity off the CAN bus to know how much battery degradation you've experienced. Using displayed range is not an accurate way to estimate. As for the car shutting down at 16 miles, absolutely abnormal but doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with the battery (although there is a good chance something could be wrong).

All that to say, I'd be very surprised if Tesla is trying to pull a fast one on you and trying to save the company $20k (or however much a battery replacement cost). Even with my absolutely terrible experience dealing with their customer service, I guess I still have faith in the fact they'll honor their warranty. Please do let us know what the end result is as I'm curious to find out what their assessment is of your battery and what they choose to do about it. Best of luck!

Edit: Here's a post I made showing an example of how big the difference can be between displayed range versus the actual total capacity (kWh) for comparing battery degradation.

I will keep you updated. When I initially brought it in when we broke down they said they ran the analytics and said I was comparable to those in my area for degradation. Even though I have spoke with representatives in the past at the only two service centers in Houston and they said that I had more miles on my car than anybody else that they had serviced by far. I didn't ask to pull the total capacity off the CAN bus but will now. I had to bring it back in last week because they just wanted to sell me another battery to hopefully solve the problem. They still couldn't ever give me an answer of why the car broke down with 16 miles left on the range. They also tried to get me to trade the car in which was a joke because the battery that they wanted me to buy was worth more than the car. I had a great amount of faith with the service center with my past problems with the drive trains but that is why I can't understand why they still haven't answer the range indicator problem. It has been over a month since the battery failed. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Tam]

...Most gas cars would be junk by then...free Supercharging...plenty of warranty work for free...

Irrelevant. ICE or not, the issue is: Whether there has been a breach of contract.

The contract says infinity miles in 8 years and degradation is excluded.

So as long as Tesla can show that there are no dead cells and these cells are only partially charged and not dead then that means they have honored their words.

 

[StealthP3D]

Irrelevant. ICE or not, the issue is: Whether there has been a breach of contract.

The contract says infinity miles in 8 years and degradation is excluded.

So as long as Tesla can show that there are no dead cells and these cells are only partially charged and not dead then that means they have honored their words.

I agree with that. And to me, this looks like degradation. Tesla even ascribed it to how the owner used the car. I was simply pointing out that 239,000 miles of use is dang good for a car (and it's still working well, albeit with reduced range).

 

[Seven7]

I will keep you updated. When I initially brought it in when we broke down they said they ran the analytics and said I was comparable to those in my area for degradation. Even though I have spoke with representatives in the past at the only two service centers in Houston and they said that I had more miles on my car than anybody else that they had serviced by far. I didn't ask to pull the total capacity off the CAN bus but will now. I had to bring it back in last week because they just wanted to sell me another battery to hopefully solve the problem. They still couldn't ever give me an answer of why the car broke down with 16 miles left on the range. They also tried to get me to trade the car in which was a joke because the battery that they wanted me to buy was worth more than the car. I had a great amount of faith with the service center with my past problems with the drive trains but that is why I can't understand why they still haven't answer the range indicator problem. It has been over a month since the battery failed. Thanks again for your input.

Why do you say that the battery failed? The car is still running, is it not?

 

[HMARTINPT]

Why do you say that the battery failed? The car is still running, is it not?

The car wouldn't run until we had it towed to the service center. They were able to get it running again but told me not to run the car below 15% because they didn't know if the car would shut down again due to the battery.

 

[Seven7]

The car wouldn't run until we had it towed to the service center. They were able to get it running again but told me not to run the car below 15% because they didn't know if the car would shut down again due to the battery.

So, the car runs, just follow their recommendation and don't operate below 15% state of charge and it will be fine. You have a car that is six years old and has a whopping 239,000 miles on it, to expect a new battery because it doesn't hold range like a new car is not rational.

 

[Electroman]

209 miles of range after 6 years and 240k miles is a pretty good all weather commuter car, and also a long distance car as long as you drive conservatively.

I bet you, if you were driving conservatively at the rated consumption of 295 wh/mile, you will get close to 200 miles before it stops.

 

[Tam]

...The car is still running, is it not?

Sure! Provided owners now should stick to the new instruction: " not to run the car below 15% "

You then can advertise that drivers can drive 335 mile Model S 100D but not when your battery gauge says 50 miles (15% of 335 miles=50.25).

...just follow their recommendation and don't operate below 15% state of charge and it will be fine...

My understanding is although the battery gauge is not an accurate range predictor but it updates itself in real time and corrects the calculation in real time to reflect the reality.

For example, if one second ago, it calculates that there are still 15% left but then this second it sees there are other factors just kicked in like battery heater kicks in, drag racing uphill... it would revise the number as 0%.

0% is when the power should run out and not 15%.

 

[HMARTINPT]

So, the car runs, just follow their recommendation and don't operate below 15% state of charge and it will be fine. You have a car that is six years old and has a whopping 239,000 miles on it, to expect a new battery because it doesn't hold range like a new car is not rational.

Tesla is the one that advertises an infinite mile battery warranty. I am just holding them to their word. i bought the car like many others because they advertise an 8 year/infinite mile warranty on the battery and drive train. So you are implying that I shouldn't hold them to their word just because the car has 239,000.
I never said I expected the car to get the 265 miles per charge like when I initially got it. I do expect the car to give an accurate range indicator and not lose battery capacity of greater than 10% without warning that left my family stranded on the side of the highway. I hope the same never happens to you.

 

[HMARTINPT]

209 miles of range after 6 years and 240k miles is a pretty good all weather commuter car, and also a long distance car as long as you drive conservatively.

I bet you, if you were driving conservatively at the rated consumption of 295 wh/mile, you will get close to 200 miles before it stops.

You are still missing the point of the car shutting down with 16 miles left on the range indicator and the calculations that the car shouldn't have shut down with only 139 miles driven given all of the driving conditions. Maybe you will feel differently when it happens to you.

 

[Seven7]

Tesla is the one that advertises an infinite mile battery warranty. I am just holding them to their word. i bought the car like many others because they advertise an 8 year/infinite mile warranty on the battery and drive train. So you are implying that I shouldn't hold them to their word just because the car has 239,000.
I never said I expected the car to get the 265 miles per charge like when I initially got it. I do expect the car to give an accurate range indicator and not lose battery capacity of greater than 10% without warning that left my family stranded on the side of the highway. I hope the same never happens to you.

I think Tesla is honoring their warranty just as it is written and even tried to offer you a discount on a new battery to try and make you happy.

 

[Seven7]

209 miles of range after 6 years and 240k miles is a pretty good all weather commuter car, and also a long distance car as long as you drive conservatively.

I bet you, if you were driving conservatively at the rated consumption of 295 wh/mile, you will get close to 200 miles before it stops.

Agreed

 

[HMARTINPT]

I think Tesla is honoring their warranty just as it is written and even tried to offer you a discount on a new battery to try and make you happy.

Agreed

OK. So what you are implying is that it is alright for the car to give inaccurate range indications that leave you stranded on the side of the highway.
I am not even trying to argue the degradation of the car. The fact that the car shut down early with the miles driven that included the driving conditions is another story.
Maybe Tesla will take the same stand as you and we will see how many new car buyers like that policy.

 

[gilscales]

Out of curiosity, how much did Tesla offer a discounted battery to you for? was it an 85kwh battery?
By the way I do think a 35% degradation is lot based on what others have had with similar miles

 

[Tam]

I think Tesla is honoring their warranty just as it is written and even tried to offer you a discount on a new battery to try and make you happy.

Honoring a contract is more than just a speculation in Tesla's case but Tesla needs to have scientific facts that its engineers can supply.

It might be a false alarm when the car dies at 16 miles on the battery gauge in this case but Tesla was concerned enough to replace Tesloop battery when the car shut down with 10 miles left on the battery gauge.

The concern is real because with the latest case prior to this, the car shut down when there was still 16% on the battery gauge. Left untreated, the car soon shut down when the battery showed 40%. That car also got the battery replaced for free with no questions asked.

 

[MP3Mike]

They still couldn't ever give me an answer of why the car broke down with 16 miles left on the range.

Would you have been happier if they just said the range remaining is an estimate and there is a known issue on higher mileage cars where the estimate reports more range available than is actual available as the battery gets near empty. Our engineers are working to refine the algorithm and plan to push an update in the near future?