Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]

[MP3Mike]

I would advise you to continue to drive your car. If in fact your battery is having a problem, it will become evident as it continues to degrade. A little time and patience will be your friend!

Exactly, as I think at least one of the other people that got a replacement pack did until the battery actually failed and required replacement.

 

[vickh]

I would say 8-10% degradation, 5% the first year plus 1-2% each year after, would be normal, so ~240 would be good.

But in reality acceptable is really up to you.

Good point. I guess a better question would be @ what % does Tesla replace. I would hope Tesla would catch that with their 70 pt. check but I've heard horror stories and seen them miss recallls.

I guess we'll find out how OP's story unfolds, but I'm curious how Tesla has handled this issue with others besides Youtubers

 

[Tam]

I will ask them to charge to 100% to check. What's acceptable range @ 100% for 15 85D ?

You could read on the very first post in all caps about acceptable range: Tesla wouldn't cover you even when your car has degraded it down to only 50 mile range.

That's because Model 3 has a guarantee of 70% capacity while your X and S don't, so theoretically, Tesla can deny warranty if your car has degraded down to only 1 mile range or any number above 0 miles.

However, historically, Tesla has proactively covered owners for shutting down prior to 0 miles in battery gauge.

If left untreated, your car could shut down at 10 miles (Tesloop), 16 miles (this thread), 34 miles (video above), 16% then the latest 40% (other thread) remained.

 

[MP3Mike]

Good point. I guess a better question would be @ what % does Tesla replace. I would hope Tesla would catch that with their 70 pt. check but I've heard horror stories and seen them miss recallls.

The Model S&X don't have a degradation warranty, so there is no magic percent that will trigger a replacement. (For the Model 3 the warranty kicks in at 70%, but is limited to 100k/120k miles.)

From the warranty:

Note that the vehicle’s range estimates are an imperfect measure of Battery capacity because they are affected by additional factors separate from Battery capacity. The measurement method used to determine Battery capacity, and the decision of whether to repair, replace, or provide reconditioned or remanufactured parts, and the condition of any such replaced, reconditioned or re-manufactured parts, are at the sole discretion of Tesla.

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage is NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty...

And probably the most meaningful for @HMARTINPT :

“Failure” means the complete failure or inability of a covered part to perform the function(s) for which it was designed, due to defects in material or workmanship of the part manufactured or supplied by Tesla, which occur under normal use. Failure does not include the gradual loss in operating performance due to normal wear and tear.

 

[gilscales]

The Model S&X don't have a degradation warranty, so there is no magic percent that will trigger a replacement. (For the Model 3 the warranty kicks in at 70%, but is limited to 100k/120k miles.)

From the warranty:





And probably the most meaningful for @HMARTINPT :

All of these things do not explain why high profile users get free battery replacements (See Tesloop, and Youtubers)

 

[Electroman]

All of these things do not explain why high profile users get free battery replacements (See Tesloop, and Youtubers)

There have been many cases of battery replacements, most often even without the owners asking for it. If only TMC has an easy search feature you can find those posts. In all of those cases it was a battery fault and nothing to do with reduced range.

 

[Tam]

...Model S&X don't have a degradation warranty...

Legally, Tesla doesn't have to replace the battery if they claim "degradation".

The first post in this thread said Tesla would not cover a Tesla that can only run 50 miles in range by citing "degradation."

They could declare that to a brand Tesla too.

But how likely would Tesla do that historically? Very unlike so far.

 

[gilscales]

There have been many cases of battery replacements, most often even without the owners asking for it. If only TMC has an easy search feature you can find those posts. In all of those cases it was a battery fault and nothing to do with reduced range.

All Tesla has to say is "It's the battery at fault" and then it is, or they can just say "Normal wear and tear" and it is, why do you think they replaced the battery in the Tesloop car? Tesla even said there was nothing wrong with the battery in that case, I think they decided it would be good publicity to do so

 

[rooter]

I didn't read a single word of the OP either, only the responses from others.

Rednecks and hillbillies post in all caps with no paragraphs, and I think I know why Tesla isn't helping.

 

[gilscales]

I didn't read a single word of the OP either, only the responses from others.

Rednecks and hillbillies post in all caps with no paragraphs, and I think I know why Tesla isn't helping.

WELL HE DID CALM DOWN AND QUIT YELLING, a bit later in his posts, haha!

 

[henderrj]

So, I'm still not convinced. There's a surprising dearth of actual details. Where's the picture of the battery label, where is the other exacting data? The other people who write in all caps and try to make a dramatic story are high school kids trying to act like grown-ups. Another issue, if you have a hundred kilowatt-hour Tesla, and yet another new one, why would you be driving this old one with your family? Something in the story is not right. But, all the discussion about battery replacement was pretty interesting to me! So, for that I can still thank the original poster. ( I've got 146K on my 2014, and still get about 250 miles range.)

 

[Matias]

I don’t run my ICE cars down to 16 miles of range either. Not worth the risk. Nobody would demand a new gas tank from Toyota if their Camry stopped running when the trip computer said 16 miles left.

That is not acceptale. I my ice car would shut itself when the trip computer said 16 miles left I would definitely say that there is something wrong with it.
I have 2015 Model S and I have driven it three times to 0 and it has not stopped. Of course that is not something you should do, but anyway car did not stop.

 

[David_Cary]

So OP has stopped posting for a little while.

I agree with the very good advice of continuing to drive the car and it will probably get worse and Tesla will replace it. But they may not have to and communication skills and acting appropriately are a good start in negotiations.

Houston is hot. Hot weather is rough on batteries. 230k miles is more than most of us expect out of our cars. There have been reports that degradation makes range estimates unreliable. Not sure that is a warranty issue for Tesla. It isn't cut and dry. What the general history of these things is that degraded batteries get out of balance. You can push them to failure at a certain SOH. That would be to drive it.

OP - I have a few direct questions for you.

Why did you take a long family trip with your oldest car?
Why do you roadtrip with 21 inch rims and a 230k miles battery?
How far were you from destination?
Do you have any paperwork from Tesla that you can take a picture of?

I know you feel like you are being blamed but you started with all caps, lack of paragraph breaks and not the best English (spelling, word choice etc). You are frustrated with Tesla and that is understandable. But your best bet is to behave perfectly reasonable and put everything out there.

In a court battle, Tesla can easily put up an expert to say that range estimates become less reliable with degradation. Your battery has a lot of degradation. Our warranty does not cover degradation. You will get little sympathy I suspect.

 

[HMARTINPT]

The Model S&X don't have a degradation warranty, so there is no magic percent that will trigger a replacement. (For the Model 3 the warranty kicks in at 70%, but is limited to 100k/120k miles.)

From the warranty:





And probably the most meaningful for @HMARTINPT :

I know I have proven that it is more than degradation. (IE, range indicator, car shutting down at only 139 while calculating in the driving factors). I am not trying to get Tesla to replace just on normal wear and tear. I know that would be a losing battle.

 

[HMARTINPT]

So OP has stopped posting for a little while.

I agree with the very good advice of continuing to drive the car and it will probably get worse and Tesla will replace it. But they may not have to and communication skills and acting appropriately are a good start in negotiations.

Houston is hot. Hot weather is rough on batteries. 230k miles is more than most of us expect out of our cars. There have been reports that degradation makes range estimates unreliable. Not sure that is a warranty issue for Tesla. It isn't cut and dry. What the general history of these things is that degraded batteries get out of balance. You can push them to failure at a certain SOH. That would be to drive it.

OP - I have a few direct questions for you.

Why did you take a long family trip with your oldest car?
Why do you roadtrip with 21 inch rims and a 230k miles battery?
How far were you from destination?
Do you have any paperwork from Tesla that you can take a picture of?

I know you feel like you are being blamed but you started with all caps, lack of paragraph breaks and not the best English (spelling, word choice etc). You are frustrated with Tesla and that is understandable. But your best bet is to behave perfectly reasonable and put everything out there.

In a court battle, Tesla can easily put up an expert to say that range estimates become less reliable with degradation. Your battery has a lot of degradation. Our warranty does not cover degradation. You will get little sympathy I suspect.

I will definitely keep driving the vehicle. Tesla actually encourages people to drive the car, not baby it. That is why they promote all of the nationwide SC.
I was initially very cordial with the service center just like I had been when they had to replace my drive train on three different occasions. It has been over a month and I have brought my car in on two different occasions with no answer from Tesla on the range indicator nor the rapid drop in battery capacity on the vehicle.
Some people are still trying to deflect what the real issue is here. Tesla still hasn’t responded to the range indicator and battery capacity issue and it has been over a month. I just received an email last night from Tesla stating that the warranty doesn’t cover degradation and I am well aware of that. In the email they still aren’t identifying what caused the range indicator problem and sudden loss of battery capacity. If it wasn’t a battery issue I don’t understand why they would try a sell me a new battery. Think about that.
I will be happy to change the all CAPS if that if that is what people want to deflect to on this situation. By the way your grammar does have mistakes in it as well.
Even though it is irrelevant to the problem that I am trying to make people aware, I will answer the questions you asked above. We take the oldest car because it is the only one out of the bumper to bumper warranty. Those are the rims I bought with the car. Have you found information from Tesla that you aren’t so suppose to take road trips if you have 21” rims? As stated above Tesla encourages owners to drive their vehicles on road trips. I haven’t found anywhere that they say don’t drive because you have over 200,000 miles. Have you? We were only 4 miles from a SC. I will get a picture of the email attached from Tesla dated yesterday still only stating that the warranty doesn’t cover degradation. Once again not addressing the rapid loss of battery capacity and the inaccurate range indicator.

 

[Troy]

OP,

• How did 100% drop to 209 mi? Was it a gradual, slow decline?
• Did you regularly charge to 100%?
• Can you check the health of the battery using the software somebody mentioned?
• Do you have a photo of rated range at 100%?

 

[HMARTINPT]

OP,

• How did 100% drop to 209 mi? Was it a gradual, slow decline?
• Did you regularly charge to 100%?
• Can you check the health of the battery using the software somebody mentioned?
• Do you have a photo of rated range at 100%?

The car has been steadily declining over the years but once again I am not trying to argue about the degradation of the vehicle. We very rarely charged to 100%. Only when we are taking road trips like Tesla advices owners to do. I am hoping Tesla will divulge the health information but I am getting pretty skeptical at this point. The car is at the service center right now so I can’t get a 100% charge photo at this time and to be honest I know if I charged to 100% I would have people saying that I am not suppose to do that.

 

[MP3Mike]

How far were you from destination?

He said he was 4 miles from the next Supercharger.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Seems like Tesla is turning into a mature company. I wouldn't be surprised if more of this case is in store for people down the road. Early on, Tesla needs the data and willing to take back packs to learn. But now, they know how it works and don't need learn anymore and needs make money. I guess that is why the Model 3 got 8 years/125K miles instead of something much larger.

Another example is Free supercharging. Before they said it was free supercharging. Then only long distance free supercharging, then back to free supercharging anywhere for grandfathered cars but no longer offers it for new cars. I guess they came to realize it cost to much. Remember guarantee vehicle buyback. Referral program? All Gone! I guess they realized the 8 years unlimited miles warranty on the car was too big of a money sink or did they think people can't drive that many miles in 8 years? I think going forward, the Model S/X will eventually lose its 8 years unlimited miles warranty and transition to sometime more reasonable like the model 3. Which in my opinion is more honest for both Tesla and the customer. Until then, those grandfathered in should be treated honestly and fairly according to the original warranty agreement.

 

[HMARTINPT]

Seems like Tesla is turning into a mature company. I wouldn't be surprised if more of this case is in store for people down the road. Early on, Tesla needs the data and willing to take back packs to learn. But now, they know how it works and don't need learn anymore and needs make money. I guess that is why the Model 3 got 8 years/125K miles instead of something much larger.

Another example is Free supercharging. Before they said it was free supercharging. Then only long distance free supercharging, then back to free supercharging anywhere for grandfathered cars but no longer offers it for new cars. I guess they came to realize it cost to much. Remember guarantee vehicle buyback. Referral program? All Gone! I guess they realized the 8 years unlimited miles warranty on the car was too big of a money sink or did they think people can't drive that many miles in 8 years? I think going forward, the Model S/X will eventually lose its 8 years unlimited miles warranty and transition to sometime more reasonable like the model 3. Which in my opinion is more honest for both Tesla and the customer. Until then, those grandfathered in should be treated honestly and fairly according to the original warranty agreement.

You couldn’t have said it any better. Thanks for your input!!!!