Woukd be interesting if they fail closed, instead of open.
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Investor Engineering Discussions
- Thread starter MC3OZ
- Start date
I see the rationale for this, but also see the problem: You can't winch it onto a tow truck without damaging something then.
Unless they also include a manual "unlock/override" feature?
And semi trailers. Well, trailers are really two systems. In one (parking), pressure releases the brakes. In the other (service), pressure applies them.
Train cars have one combination feed/control line.
On use dollys. Same thing with the electric parking brake on the rear wheels now.
@MC3OZ Great start, thread and got me thinking about the things that CT will make costs go down vs up.
Here's my list
Costs go down:
Here's my list
Costs go down:
- 20% Manufacture time - Much less complexity, many more sub-assemblies can just be bolted/attached to the chassis, assuming less TAC time per station and less stations. For example: Cast F/B chassis-->Dip it-->Attach battery assembly-->Place chassis wiring harnesses (possibly rails)-->Attach bed (lights/camera included in assembly)-->Install flooring (includes pedels)-->Install seats-->Install dash assembly (includes screen/MCU)-->Install headliner (Interior complete)-->Attach B-pillar cameras-->Attach windshield (includes wiper)-->Attach body panels (TIG attached)-->Attach doors (complete assembly)-->Attach rear liftgate-->Attach chassis body black elements (includes fender cameras)-->Attach motor/gearbox/inverter assembly (4x)-->Attach suspension assembly-->Attach wheels with tires-->Done
- 30% Body in white - Simplified as the frame has less parts due to not being body-on-frame but rather "stressed skin" 30X
- 20% Glass - Yes it is new/big, but it is flat, this is much cheaper to make flat glass and easier to affix to car
- 10% Windshield wiper - Single motor, but bigger. Tesla patent, so I'd bet less parts
- 10% No paint!
- 40% 30X is expensive, hopefully this goes down as it ramps
- 10% Beefier suspension, Air/Hydraulic more articulation/load balancing/hauling/towing/cornering needs (more weight at edge)
- 10% Seats/flooring/headliner/body controls, more durable
- 40% Vault rolling door
- FSD HW/SW
- MCU/screen/dash
- HVAC
I'll dive into glass:
- Flat
- easier production
- eaiser to install
- easier production
- Bulletproof...ish
- more demanding to produce/QC
- more laminae?
- more exotic composition
- more demanding to produce/QC
The bulletproof...ish glass contains aluminium, at least some variants do.
It may have been developed by SpaceX for the small glass dome on the dragon capsule.
The extremely optimistic view is that manufacture starts with glass beads then it is a simple matter melting of adding the right about of "special sauce" ingredients, mixing and forming.
We don't know if the "special sauce" is a closely held Tesla/SpaceX secret or if the glass is simply widely available standard commercial product.
It may have been developed by SpaceX for the small glass dome on the dragon capsule.
The extremely optimistic view is that manufacture starts with glass beads then it is a simple matter melting of adding the right about of "special sauce" ingredients, mixing and forming.
We don't know if the "special sauce" is a closely held Tesla/SpaceX secret or if the glass is simply widely available standard commercial product.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes, I believe that Tesla has stated this openly in their presentations, but from nearly 5 years ago, here's an article (Fred warning) showing the inside.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That's what I thought, so doesn't seem like much of a stretch for them to do their own shatter resistant vehicle glass.
Yeah and I wonder what glass is used on Dragon.
I wonder what critical path is for CT? Wonder what others think. Could be 4680s?
I doubt it is the glass as they seem have that down, but need to insulate it from vibration, clean up the corners from causing hairline cracks.
I'd bet critical path is efficient TIG welding of the 30X panels to the casting. That seems like the hardest part to me as they all then need to welded to each other to form the exoskeleten as well as provide enough crash energy dampening/dispersion (think crumple zones in normal cars). Not to mention some amount of front bumper dampening to pass the ped strike tests.
How do folks think these are being cut to size? Water jets?
Maybe 2nd critical path is the IDRA press. One day, I hope to see/hear/feel that thing in action. I'd expect that Tesla will talk about it at earnings or maybe just the production progress. That would be my retail investor question.
I wonder what critical path is for CT? Wonder what others think. Could be 4680s?
I doubt it is the glass as they seem have that down, but need to insulate it from vibration, clean up the corners from causing hairline cracks.
I'd bet critical path is efficient TIG welding of the 30X panels to the casting. That seems like the hardest part to me as they all then need to welded to each other to form the exoskeleten as well as provide enough crash energy dampening/dispersion (think crumple zones in normal cars). Not to mention some amount of front bumper dampening to pass the ped strike tests.
How do folks think these are being cut to size? Water jets?
Maybe 2nd critical path is the IDRA press. One day, I hope to see/hear/feel that thing in action. I'd expect that Tesla will talk about it at earnings or maybe just the production progress. That would be my retail investor question.
If Tesla are doing their own cold rolling then perhaps some sections can be cut before rolling.
Some sections could be left as standard softer stainless steel. Various sections could be cold rolled to the correct strength.
I think 4680s are definitely on of the ducks that needed to lined up.
Welding and the IDRA press are other critical elements.
IMO the cathode plant was dealyed due to delayed Lithium concentrate supplies and the steep part of 4680 ramp needs the cathode plant.
There is an outside chance that the cathode plant might produce single crystal nickel cathodes and in turn that might allow DBE for nickel cathodes.
I would not call that speculation, more like wishful thinking on my part. It would be the battery production equalivent of winning the lottery.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I don't see how it could be lighter, they need to stuff a lot of battery in there to get 500 miles of range. Model X 5,200 lbs using a lot of aluminum gets 348 miles of range and is more aerodynamic than the Cyber will be.
There is also the question of the load they are hauling.
Different models were rated for different loads, which suggests some areas like suspension and brakes might be different.
The Cyber design probably results in a lighter body for the same hauling / towing capacity than a more conventional design.
A big battery and fast charging seems to be needed for towing / hauling long distances.
I am fairly confident that Cybertruck will be the smart choice for towing a large boat or a caravan long distances and V4 Supercharging will be a big part of that.
navguy12
Active Member
Random internet guy with one data point.
GVWR for front axel of the semi:
GVWR for front axel of a random big diesel tractor rig:
Can anyone comment on possible actual weight of the Tesla semi if front axel GVWR on Tesla semi is 1,577 lbs more than front axel of a diesel semi?
GVWR for front axel of the semi:
GVWR for front axel of a random big diesel tractor rig:
Can anyone comment on possible actual weight of the Tesla semi if front axel GVWR on Tesla semi is 1,577 lbs more than front axel of a diesel semi?
Can't determine tractor weight from max axle loading.
Normal Federal limit for steering axle is 12k pounds, 34k for tandem pair. EV gets an extra 2k, so legal max is 48k lbs.
That data tag is also suspicious due to incorrect tire pressure. Should be 110 or so.
The mfr date shown is 12/20, which is a prototype from last year.
But considering where the battery is, wouldn't the weight be split evenly between the front axle and int axle - since the trailer weight would only go directly onto the rear and int axles?
Edit: So just a long winded to guess that the semi weighs 25,200 lbs?
I think 4680 was the critical path and they are finally seeing the light on the other side of that. There would have been no point getting the Gigapress in place in Spring of 2022 since they didn’t have enough cells to produce more than a handful of trucks. Now that 4680 is seemingly on track, the press and the assembly line/ stainless folding equipment are the next critical pieces. Gigapress should go together fairly quickly since they’ve gotten a lot of experience with them now?? The Stainless folding and assembly line are big.
There are a lot of other technologies coming together in this which might glitch it. If it is drive-by-wire/ brake by wire that’s a lot of cutting edge stuff. Likewise if they are doing the rail electrical/ communications bus. Plus FSD HW4. Any of those things could be a wrench in the works.
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