Investor Engineering Discussions

[bkp_duke]

Yeah, certainly explains their interest in designing and possibly producing modules in house going forward. Especially since currently the main controllers are made in Tiawan and the Tiawan/China situation is what it is. Not that Elon's latest "Tiawan integration" comments have been helping any.

Where? To connect the underdash controllers?

Multiple computers, etc. (not ECUs, actual computers - the MCU, the gateway, and a 3rd I can't remember the name right now). They make a lot more use of ethernet than other autos.

This from my personal experience with two salvage S's.

 

[mongo]

I looked over the Model 3 and Y diagrams to see where they might potentially replace CAN with ethernet. Quite disappointed to discover they have very low utilization of CAN or any modern communications to begin with. No wonder they're making a big deal about minimizing wiring. They have the highest number of analog wires I've seen on a modern car. The master window switch has analog wiring running all the way to a passenger compartment mounted controller. A separate wire for each individual switch in the master switch panel! Instead of using multiple separate door mounted and rear mounted CAN and LIN modules as is the norm for euro vehicles nowadays, they instead run all vehicle wiring all the way up to three controllers under the dash. My God, why?! Need power to the left tail light? Let's run a wire all the way up to the dash. Need power to the right brake light? Let's run a wire all the way up to the dash. Need to know hatch power strut position? Let's run a wire all the way up to the dash. Let's just run a ton of wiring from front to back instead of integrating a rear module.

Coincidentally, a design with dumb/analog wiring architecture must have been an absolute Godsend during the chip shortage. Can't be held back by a door module shortage if your design uses a handful of analog wires instead of a door module.

On the bright side, if they've been making money using 20th century wiring systems, they should be able to make even more using 21st century wiring.

Are you getting tripped up by the LHD RHD options? It shows both, but only one is populated. Window switches don't run cross car.
The Y has three main body control modules for discrete IO and CAN runs to multiple other modules like BLE nodes.

 

[dbeiler]

I should clarify. I don't mean a compartment on the passenger side. I mean in the passenger compartment as opposed to in the door panel. They are running individual switch wires (6+?) from the master switch through the door jamb to the controller instead of CAN or LIN from the master switch to a door module.

 

[MP3Mike]

I should clarify. I don't mean a compartment on the passenger side. I mean in the passenger compartment as opposed to in the door panel. They are running individual switch wires (6+?) from the master switch through the door jamb to the controller instead of CAN or LIN from the master switch to a door module.

Which is actually more cost effective, both in part, and assembly, cost? Goin with CAN you would still need 4 wires... And how far inside the door jamb do the wires go? A foot?

Is having yet another ECU in the door, along with a housing and everything, cheaper than a couple extra wires? (I seem to recall Munro praising Tesla's decision to consolidate a bunch of those ECUs into the three major ECUs.)

 

[JRP3]

LF talks about lithium doping

 

[mongo]

TBH I would be happy if they just gave me access to the front camera. When Im pulling forwards into a parking space with a big bollard, It would be trivial for my mere human eyes to look at the camera and pull up close enough, but apparently the cutting edge AI cannot manage this at all. Its constantly telling me to stop when I'm a foot or more away from an object.
Plus it cant discriminate between some soft foliage (ok for me to touch) and a concrete post. My human eyes can do this. Just give me the forward facing camera view! I know its there!

The windshield mounted front facing cameras have only a slightly better field of view directly on front of the car than a non-tall driver.
Cybertruck adds a front grill camera which does improve things.

 

[mongo]

Define "Dummy" - like to see dummy drivers? I think it's for future use in case, maybe even just dormant for all we know, like a "Dumb Terminal". Why on earth would Tesla not simplify this down to 2 camera slots for production and save on labor + the dummy part (that sure looks like a lens)? Maybe I'm missing part of the story, going by this.

Tesla installed a 'dummy camera' in Hardware 4 vehicles

Tesla is installing a "dummy camera" in Hardware 4 vehicles, it revealed in its Service Manual.

www.teslarati.com

They may have designed the housing protecting for three cameras, then determined they only need two.

The service manual says it's populated with a dummy camera, but really, the housing has a lens fitted and there isn't anything installed at that location.
service.tesla.com

 

[mongo]

I assume that they had a huge stock of the three camera plastics, and didn't want to throw them away, or create another different part that they would need to stock, so they just drop a dummy "filler" camera in that slot.

I thought the same, but looking at the service manual, the housing and design seem different from previous versions.
New has individual cameras that install into holes, older had integrated triple unit with 3 connectors.

 

[mongo]

Confirmed: Tesla HW4 Will Not Include New Cameras Initially | notateslaapp.com (Feb 22, 2023)

Article calls out no additional cameras. Service manual for S shows the new assembly with two front facing cameras in the three position housing.

 

[Bet TSLA]

I know there are endless battery "breakthrough" developments, seemingly every week or so. I'm wondering if anybody on this thread has the expertise to say whether this one has any real potential.

The 3D Battery Solution for Endless Applications | Prieto

Unleash the power of Prieto's 3D battery architecture for every application. Partnering with industry leaders to provide endless solutions.

prieto.com

Seems like they've taken the approach of maximizing battery surface area through better geometry. Makes intuitive sense.

 

[JRP3]

I thought they had gone under, had a lot of hype a few years ago but never lived up to it, like most of them.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I know there are endless battery "breakthrough" developments, seemingly every week or so. I'm wondering if anybody on this thread has the expertise to say whether this one has any real potential.

The 3D Battery Solution for Endless Applications | Prieto

Unleash the power of Prieto's 3D battery architecture for every application. Partnering with industry leaders to provide endless solutions.

prieto.com

Seems like they've taken the approach of maximizing battery surface area through better geometry. Makes intuitive sense.

I wouldn't give it any credence. Just look at the old EVTV youtube video's by Jack Rickard, where he tears apart a 2170 cell (

- just play it at 2x, because he speaks slowly). They're "2D" for a reason. Making them 3D wouldn't improve their energy density. If anything, it might make them worse!

 

[mongo]

IIRC, only V3 superchargers are capable of the CCS protocol to communicate with EVs. V3 can also communicate with Tesla's proprietary protocol, which is needed for older Tesla's that are not CCS capable. V2 superchargers only have Tesla's proprietary protocol, IIRC.

For some reason, it seems like Tesla is not interested in updating V2 superchargers, and I doubt Tesla or Ford would want to use Tesla's protocol on Ford vehicles. I speculate this is the reason only V3 superchargers will be open to Ford.

I do expect the V2 superchargers to go away at some point. They will be uneconomical to maintain, and replaced with V4 or later superchargers.

GSP

Agreed
Technically, the adapter could be smart enough to convert from CCS to Tesla V2, but I'm guessing they don't want to take on the additional liability for that software, plus it adds complexity to ID/ billing.

 

[bkp_duke]

Agreed
Technically, the adapter could be smart enough to convert from CCS to Tesla V2, but I'm guessing they don't want to take on the additional liability for that software, plus it adds complexity to ID/ billing.

Tesla does all the logic at the car. I hope they provide Ford the necessary bits to do that as well. Less to manage long term for Tesla.

 

[mongo]

Tesla does all the logic at the car. I hope they provide Ford the necessary bits to do that as well. Less to manage long term for Tesla.

Right, so for a CCS Ford on a V2 SpC, the adapter would need to handle bidirectional translation.

V3 SpC can talk CCS, so the minimum Ford would need for that is a physical adapter or NACS connector. Ford could talk Tesla, but then Tesla is stuck with 3rd party linkages to their protocol (less agile).

 

[transpondster]

In Europe V2 also works with CCS, but it's dual cables...
Another possibility maybe V2 won't be available for Ford as due to wrong port location blocking V2 is more problematic than V3 which can redistribute power more flexible so blocking space most likely doesn't affect site throughput limit

 

[JRP3]

Something to be aware of, apparently people have cleared BMS errors before selling used Tesla's which can then create a dangerous condition.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661618106815356928

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Something to be aware of, apparently people have cleared BMS errors before selling used Tesla's which can then create a dangerous condition.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661618106815356928

And this is probably where those instances of "out of warranty battery failures" that TSLAQ has been citing came from. I posted wk057's tweet on TSLAQ threads everytime they post such a story about battery failures.

 

[Doggydogworld]

And this is probably where those instances of "out of warranty battery failures" that TSLAQ has been citing came from. I posted wk057's tweet on TSLAQ threads everytime they post such a story about battery failures.

What am I missing here? The scammers aren't causing the battery to fail, they're just hiding the failure. That's fraudulent and apparently dangerous, and needs to be stopped, but it doesn't change the original fact that the battery failed out of warranty.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

What am I missing here? The scammers aren't causing the battery to fail, they're just hiding the failure. That's fraudulent and apparently dangerous, and needs to be stopped, but it doesn't change the original fact that the battery failed out of warranty.

The BMS might've failed out of warranty, or it could be a salvage vehicle that wasn't properly repaired. Whatever the case, it's not a given that the battery pack was bad.

Edit: And also a reason why Tesla wouldn't do a goodwill repair on it.