Ionity - how will Jaguar, Polestar etc survive?

[pdk42]

It seems to me that EVs roughly fall into two camps (maybe a bit oversimplistic, but bear with me) - larger cars with big batteries that can replace a family's main car; and smaller, city cars with smaller batteries that are usually a second car and mostly do shorter journeys.

Now, in the first category we have Tesla, but also Jaguar with the iPace, Polestar, Audi, Mercedes and such like. These cars need rapid DC charging networks to make them viable. The city cars can probably survive with home charging and slower supermarket car park options.

With Ionity's announcement this week, it seems that the "minor" brands with expensive big battery cars like Jaguar, Polestar and such like are getting frozen out. I wouldn't want to be owning an iPace now, facing either pathetically slow and unreliable charging with Polar etc, or else paying £50 to charge to 200 miles with Ionity.

Unless Shell or such like get their networks installed pretty quickly, I can see Jaguar etc struggling to sell their EVs.

 

[jimbo_hippo]

It seems to me that EVs roughly fall into two camps (maybe a bit oversimplistic, but bear with me) - larger cars with big batteries that can replace a family's main car; and smaller, city cars with smaller batteries that are usually a second car and mostly do shorter journeys.

Now, in the first category we have Tesla, but also Jaguar with the iPace, Polestar, Audi, Mercedes and such like. These cars need rapid DC charging networks to make them viable. The city cars can probably survive with home charging and slower supermarket car park options.

With Ionity's announcement this week, it seems that the "minor" brands with expensive big battery cars like Jaguar, Polestar and such like are getting frozen out. I wouldn't want to be owning an iPace now, facing either pathetically slow and unreliable charging with Polar etc, or else paying £50 to charge to 200 miles with Ionity.

Unless Shell or such like get their networks installed pretty quickly, I can see Jaguar etc struggling to sell their EVs.

All those people considering a mainstream manufacturer EV being driven back to the manufacturers’ ICE alternatives by charging prices. Who’d have ever imagined that happening ...... hmmm .....

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I read an article the other day that said car buyers aren't interested in electric vehicles that are not named Tesla. And looking at sales figures, that is clearly the case, so far. And that includes Jaguar.

 

[Rooster6655]

It seems to me that EVs roughly fall into two camps (maybe a bit oversimplistic, but bear with me) - larger cars with big batteries that can replace a family's main car; and smaller, city cars with smaller batteries that are usually a second car and mostly do shorter journeys.

Now, in the first category we have Tesla, but also Jaguar with the iPace, Polestar, Audi, Mercedes and such like. These cars need rapid DC charging networks to make them viable. The city cars can probably survive with home charging and slower supermarket car park options.

With Ionity's announcement this week, it seems that the "minor" brands with expensive big battery cars like Jaguar, Polestar and such like are getting frozen out. I wouldn't want to be owning an iPace now, facing either pathetically slow and unreliable charging with Polar etc, or else paying £50 to charge to 200 miles with Ionity.

Unless Shell or such like get their networks installed pretty quickly, I can see Jaguar etc struggling to sell their EVs.

No issues with polar for me.

Jag will still sell the cars for now and some people like jag fans will buy them, if you can charge at home then 220 miles is reasonable enough.

 

[seattlite2004]

I read an article the other day that said car buyers aren't interested in electric vehicles that are not named Tesla. And looking at sales figures, that is clearly the case, so far. And that includes Jaguar.

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/w...ars-that-maybe-dont-drive-themselves-it-seems

 

[ai4px]

Survey: drivers globally want cheap electric cars that maybe don’t drive themselves

That's a helluva article. I got the feeling about 1/2 way through it that they asked people if they wanted to drive EV cars because the manufacturers were killing puppies and unicorns. Of course no one wants puppies and unicorns to die. Seriously, drivers in india are worried about these fancy new cars collecting their blood pressure and heart rates? huh? Seems like a reporter went a little wild here.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Most of the EV manufacturers, other than Tesla, offer free charging for a year or two, at one provider or another. Some offer free charging at their captive dealerships as well.

They will be struggling to find reasonably priced travel charging for their customers.

Tesla seems to be the undisputed leader in providing fast and economical charging for their traveling owners.

 

[seattlite2004]

That's a helluva article. I got the feeling about 1/2 way through it that they asked people if they wanted to drive EV cars because the manufacturers were killing puppies and unicorns. Of course no one wants puppies and unicorns to die. Seriously, drivers in india are worried about these fancy new cars collecting their blood pressure and heart rates? huh? Seems like a reporter went a little wild here.

Reporter? How about a study:

2020 Global Automotive Consumer Study

PDF attached

 

[azred]

While I don’t often Supercharge either of my Teslas — and the 2016 has lifetime of car free — I have noticed an alarming number of broken chargers. Given that so many new ones are coming online I would think this issue will become even more serious with so many of them getting old at once. But at least Tesla has a major vested interest in improving maintenance as Superchargers are so important to Tesla’s competitive advantage. Other charging companies are a crazy quilt. I wouldn’t even consider an electric car without a charging network provided by the company and that means Tesla. Maybe in five to ten years that won’t be the case. We’ll see.

 

[Bobly]

This is a good insight into iPace ownership and public chargers right now

(also see Harry’s other video about how much it costs to insure his “fleet”).

 

[Skeewiff]

When I bought my M3, I was told by a Tesla salesman @ Brent Cross, that he'd discovered Jagwar salesmen were claiming that the I-pace could use Tesla superchargers!

Cheeky as fek, but with the correct wording i.e. "The IPace has the same charging connector as the new Teslas" or "The Ipace uses the same charging standard as the new Tesla superchargers" I see how they could get away with it.

I feel sorry for the poor Jag shmo pulling into a Tesla Charger with only 15 miles left!

 

[Vectorclock]

All those people considering a mainstream manufacturer EV being driven back to the manufacturers’ ICE alternatives by charging prices. Who’d have ever imagined that happening ...... hmmm .....

What’s the motivation for Jaguar to invest in an EV and then push people towards their ICE lineup instead?

 

[banned-66611]

These cars need rapid DC charging networks to make them viable.

No they don't.

iPace range is about 180 miles worst case (0C temperatures, rain/snow and motorway driving). That's 2.5 hours on the road if you manage to avoid traffic and roadworks and stick to motorways for the entire journey.

Most people rarely drive that far, if ever. London to Birmingham is 120 miles. London to Manchester is 200 miles so you could do it without charging quite easily.

And it's not like there are not charging networks in the UK, and it's not like having to pay Ionity prices a few times a year is going to stop you buying a Jaguar.

 

[Mark_T]

No they don't.

iPace range is about 180 miles worst case (0C temperatures, rain/snow and motorway driving). That's 2.5 hours on the road if you manage to avoid traffic and roadworks and stick to motorways for the entire journey.

Agreed, I do think the whole charging network thing is grossly over-rated for most drivers.

For some it is undoubtedly vital, but those are the ones who are on the margins for viability for an EV as their main car.

As long as a daily home charge covers normal daily usage it really isn't a big deal and the occasional need to pay over the odds for a recharge isn't going to kill the viability of an EV for most people.

Nice to have for sure, but it isn't going to kill the adoption rate either.

 

[Bobly]

No they don't.

iPace range is about 180 miles worst case (0C temperatures, rain/snow and motorway driving). That's 2.5 hours on the road if you manage to avoid traffic and roadworks and stick to motorways for the entire journey.

Most people rarely drive that far, if ever. London to Birmingham is 120 miles. London to Manchester is 200 miles so you could do it without charging quite easily.

And it's not like there are not charging networks in the UK, and it's not like having to pay Ionity prices a few times a year is going to stop you buying a Jaguar.

Yep, you can (just about) get from London to Manchester without charging in an iPace (see video above, in that example with “normal” motorway driving and a bit of city, seems to give just under 200 miles).

But once you’ve finished doing whatever you went to Manchester for, how do you get home?

 

[Mark_T]

But once you’ve finished doing whatever you went to Manchester for, how do you get home?

Pay the price for a fast charge...

It is only a big deal if you have to do it every day/week...

 

[Lickrob]

It seems to me that EVs roughly fall into two camps (maybe a bit oversimplistic, but bear with me) - larger cars with big batteries that can replace a family's main car; and smaller, city cars with smaller batteries that are usually a second car and mostly do shorter journeys.

Now, in the first category we have Tesla, but also Jaguar with the iPace, Polestar, Audi, Mercedes and such like. These cars need rapid DC charging networks to make them viable. The city cars can probably survive with home charging and slower supermarket car park options.

With Ionity's announcement this week, it seems that the "minor" brands with expensive big battery cars like Jaguar, Polestar and such like are getting frozen out. I wouldn't want to be owning an iPace now, facing either pathetically slow and unreliable charging with Polar etc, or else paying £50 to charge to 200 miles with Ionity.

Unless Shell or such like get their networks installed pretty quickly, I can see Jaguar etc struggling to sell their EVs.

The big thing I think a lot of people are overlooking here is the lifestyle change that you have when you get an EV. You don’t wait until it’s empty and then “fill it up” like an ICE car. You constantly top it up at home.

Yes there are people out there that will be using the ionity Network for a full charge multiple times of times a month but they will be a minority. Most people (especially in the UK) will only need rapid chargers a few times a year and they will be happy to pay a premium for the speed when they do.

 

[Daverh]

The big thing I think a lot of people are overlooking here is the lifestyle change that you have when you get an EV. You don’t wait until it’s empty and then “fill it up” like an ICE car. You constantly top it up at home.

That's what flipped my dad's mind about them; you spend 30 seconds plugging it in when you get home and every morning it's full again. You don't find yourself 5 miles from leaving the house before realising that you should stop at the petrol station on your way to the shops.

 

[Yev000]

My father in law was practically gloating about this news...

We just sold our VW sharan and got a 100 mile second hand Leaf for my wife.

Despite explaining she will never use a rapid charger (we would just take the Tesla) and that Tesla has a network by itself, he still would not be convinced. Apparently "others will follow suit, i've been predicting this all along".

 

[Mark_T]

My father in law was practically gloating about this news...

We just sold our VW sharan and got a 100 mile second hand Leaf for my wife.

Despite explaining she will never use a rapid charger (we would just take the Tesla) and that Tesla has a network by itself, he still would not be convinced. Apparently "others will follow suit, i've been predicting this all along".

The value of the network is mostly marketing as this shows...

... the practicalities are far less convincing, much like 'Free Supercharging', it plays on the perceived values and fears not real ones.