Ionity - how will Jaguar, Polestar etc survive?

[rhumbliner]

Agreed, I do think the whole charging network thing is grossly over-rated for most drivers.

I would have to disagree. Of course, it depends a lot on individual factors like whether an family is a 1 or 2-car family, distances normally driven, etc., but I’m certain the network is the most important factor. I’ve received 6 referrals just by convincing my neighbors/friends who were considering a non-Tesla BEV to go with Tesla instead, and the only thing I did was to open up PlugShare. I had them map out where they did most of their driving and then include their holiday/vacation travel and the choice became obvious. Only Tesla allowed them to travel wherever they normally needed/wanted to go.

 

[Mark_T]

I would have to disagree.

Keep in mind though that this thread is in the UK group, poor as we think it is, the national provision of alternate chargers here is still way ahead of the USA given the relatively short distances involved here...

 

[Adopado]

I'm kinda hoping efficiency will improve over time the way MPG has not get worse!
I wonder how long before governments start to impose EV efficiency targets like the current CO2 ones for ICE. Average fleet wide W/mi of 300 that sort of thing and taxation for individual vehicles based on it.
I can see it now. Bosch and VW are probably working on some "special" software for that already.............

What an appalling slur on our decent German friends ... but, I'm not saying you're wrong!

 

[antracing]

Do t forget the extra weight your LR has to lug around costing electrons when not needed probably a lot of the time!

 

[banned-66611]

But once you’ve finished doing whatever you went to Manchester for, how do you get home?

I must admit I've never been to Manchester but do they not have electricity up there?

 

[jimbo_hippo]

I must admit I've never been to Manchester but do they not have electricity up there?

We have some electricity but it depends if the bloke who comes round to light the gas lamps street by street remembers to twist the wires for our terrace together. He rides a penny farthing to reduce some of the reach with his flame.

 

[MaDProFF]

I cannot imagine that polestar especially, and Ipace are selling that many cars or will do in the near future for it to become an issue for them.

 

[Mr H]

We have some electricity but it depends if the bloke who comes round to light the gas lamps street by street remembers to twist the wires for our terrace together. He rides a penny farthing to reduce some of the reach with his flame.

A penny farthing eh, you must live in the city centre. Here on the outskirts we have a rag and bone man that has to stand on his horse to light the gas lamps....

 

[Cwmwd]

Here on the outskirts we have a rag and bone man that has to stand on his horse to light the gas lamps

Gas lamps?! You were lucky: we have to make do with moonlight and tallow candles rendered from our childhood pets... (with a nod to Terry Jones)

 

[Adopado]

Gas lamps?! You were lucky: we have to make do with moonlight and tallow candles rendered from our childhood pets... (with a nod to Terry Jones)

Gas lamps not needed " ... we had to get up before we went to bed ... "

 

[MrBadger]

Gas lamps not needed " ... we had to get up before we went to bed ... "

You don't need lights in Scotland. I remember from when I was a kid, you could still make sandcastles on the beach after midnight.

 

[mspohr]

Doesn't look good for JLR

Jaguar Land Rover bailout talks fall through, report says

Jaguar Land Rover also was unwilling to accept decarbonization requirements that would have forced the automaker to accelerate its program of vehicle electrification and phase out the diesel cars that still make up most of its fleet, the Financial Times said, citing a source with knowledge of the discussions.

 

[LongRanger]

I have a dirty little secret at the moment whilst I wait for the Model 3 to arrive - a 20-plate hire car in the form of a Jaguar F-Pace. D..dddd..ddddd.iesel shhh don’t say it aloud.

It’s an appalling dogs breakfast of a thing.

There’s not even a smidgeon of a hint that whoever produced this vehicle is in any way leaning towards a clean energy future.

Makes me laugh how the owner of Tata Steel i.e. big manufacturing couldn’t possibly lower itself to accept decarbonisation targets in the form of bailout money conditions. There’s a lot of waking up needed, proper sh1t or bust time for a whole load of the world is imminent....

 

[Medved_77]

Think a large part of the Jaguar problem is the huge investment that they made in the recent opening of the Nitra plant in Slovakia. This isn't setup for EV production.

The ipace is built by a contract manufacturer (not directly by Jag) in Graz, Austria so for Jag to continue building EVs via a third party eats into their profits and scalability.

I have an affinity for the brand and still drive a '98 XJ8 on occasion so would be sad to see it go.

 

[LongRanger]

^^ that’s a lot closer to a “real Jag” than the arse-gravy mess of a lump that is my current hire car. Saw a white XJ12 today, that car is a staple memory of my childhood.

If you look at where the money is coming from to fund today’s “Jaguar”, it’s a massive multinational with very little intent to decarbonise - making Jag’s EVs just a bit of window dressing. they are barely trying. At least Volvo have put their cahones on the block with a public commitment.

 

[exlatccatsa]

You don't need lights in Scotland. I remember from when I was a kid, you could still make sandcastles on the beach after midnight.

Correct.. Midnight Shetland August 6th.
The "simmer dim"

 

[Drew57]

We on this forum are naturally biased towards Tesla but there are other factors too....

A friend of mine drives mostly short distances but makes at least one long return trip to southern Europe each year.

He road tested a Model 3 LR but already had some concerns - fit & finish, overall quality, customer service reputation & minimalist interior. After much deliberation he's placed an order for a Polestar. His reasoning, which seems reasonable to me is that he has to live with the actual car day-in day-out and can accept the hassle of long distance charging on the rare occasions he needs it. Other than. that he is happy to charge at home or 'free' with Pod Point. My nephew is about to order an Audi e-Tron for similar reasons.

Both share the view that in their opinion the actual car is more important than the dubious benefits of a supercharger network that they will use occasionally. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Jibjab]

We on this forum are naturally biased towards Tesla but there are other factors too....

A friend of mine drives mostly short distances but makes at least one long return trip to southern Europe each year.

He road tested a Model 3 LR but already had some concerns - fit & finish, overall quality, customer service reputation & minimalist interior. After much deliberation he's placed an order for a Polestar. His reasoning, which seems reasonable to me is that he has to live with the actual car day-in day-out and can accept the hassle of long distance charging on the rare occasions he needs it. Other than. that he is happy to charge at home or 'free' with Pod Point. My nephew is about to order an Audi e-Tron for similar reasons.

Both share the view that in their opinion the actual car is more important than the dubious benefits of a supercharger network that they will use occasionally. Time will tell I guess.

I went through the same thought process after having many ‘robust’ cars...but I’ve decided as a first EV a Model 3 fits more of my requirements and will hopefully prove to be of little to no (and in some cases superior) compromise to a conventional ICE car. The Supercharger network is such a great benefit, time will tell how much I have to use it, but it’s nice to know it’s there as a comfort blanket

 

[WarpedOne]

Both share the view that in their opinion the actual car is more important than the dubious benefits of a supercharger network that they will use occasionally. Time will tell I guess.

Both of your friends are correct and will nevertheless be deeply disappointed with their choice.
They both are doing one very big mistake - they assume the service and reliability of those EVs will be similar to ICE counterparts just because of the brand name.

What a blunder ...

 

[Jason71]

One of the Elephants in the room ( for those of us not leasing ) is depreciation. At the moment the Model 3 is looking quite promising though until they start to hit the used market in volume the numbers will be distorted. I imagine the Ipace is a disaster for anyone who paid close to list. I wonder how the likes of Etron and Polestar will fair.
The OTA updates are allegedly good in this respect since a 3 year old M3 will have pretty much the same functionality as a brand new one.