Certainly makes sense due to the number of passengers.The $80K limit is for SUVs and vans. If the 7-seater Y is a MPV, its qualifying for the higher limit under its van classification.
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Certainly makes sense due to the number of passengers.The $80K limit is for SUVs and vans. If the 7-seater Y is a MPV, its qualifying for the higher limit under its van classification.
In all honesty, I dont like that the bill covers vehicles up to $80K at all. If the purpose of the overarching act is to ultimately curb inflation, the Model Y at $55K sounds perfectly reasonable as a goal (same for the other vehicles in its class.) $80K is more than the median household income here in the USA. It makes me curious who is ultimately buying these vehicles that not only meet the income thresholds of the tax credit, but is also ok with the with the interest rates (the majority of new vehicles are financed.) If the average EV purchase is creeping above $60K+ (I think its $66K today), that sounds like a crisis of its own.
Secondly, I think what we're seeing in the EV market (the push towards larger, more-costly, less-efficient crossovers, SUVs, etc) is similar to what pretty much killed the [more efficient, cheaper] car market here in the US. We're already starting to see some smaller EV options being sold overseas (with decent range like the ID3) that arent coming here for the same reason (the car market is dead here.) I think the government should be incentivizing these cheaper/more efficient vehicles, but thats an argument for another day.
The same sentiment here. My Model Y was the most expensive vehicle I've ever purchased. And while I could see myself reaching a little bit more for an MYP at the right price.. I don't ever see myself paying more than $60K for a vehicle. The idea of buying a $70K or $80K Model Y.. just doesn't even compute in my brain.Even 55k is too high a limit. We need to force car manufacturers to produce electric vehicles at near gas equivalent in terms of total cost of ownership. An EV sedan could be around $10k more expensive than an equivalent ICE sedan, and likewise for SUVs. $40k for a car and $50k for a (real) SUV would allow the average consumer to comfortably adopt electric.
The average new car transaction price in 2022 was ~$48,000, so I'd argue $55k is almost exactly correct to achieve equivalency after a $7500 tax credit (to say nothing of additional benefits like fuel cost and maintenance).Even 55k is too high a limit. We need to force car manufacturers to produce electric vehicles at near gas equivalent in terms of total cost of ownership.
Until it’s a POS reduction, the credit will seem out of reach to your average buyer. Making someone wait for a refund, which they won’t understand, isn’t going to work.The average new car transaction price in 2022 was ~$48,000, so I'd argue $55k is almost exactly correct to achieve equivalency after a $7500 tax credit (to say nothing of additional benefits like fuel cost and maintenance).
While I agree the new car price has risen tremendously in general, I think that's also a bubble that's going to pop. Especially with the rising interest rates. We simply cannot continue this trend of many people having $1,000 monthly car payments until something bad happens:The average new car transaction price in 2022 was ~$48,000, so I'd argue $55k is almost exactly correct to achieve equivalency after a $7500 tax credit (to say nothing of additional benefits like fuel cost and maintenance).
Not just that, but until it's a POS reduction, most folks will need to finance/pay interest on the $7500 they hope to recoup at the end of year (about $2K in interest alone over a standard loan term - assuming no early payments and whatnot.)Until it’s a POS reduction, the credit will seem out of reach to your average buyer. Making someone wait for a refund, which they won’t understand, isn’t going to work.
Yes, of course they can lease and get it right away. If they understand that.
If these numbers are right
The average new car transaction price in 2022 was ~$48,000, so I'd argue $55k is almost exactly correct to achieve equivalency after a $7500 tax credit (to say nothing of additional benefits like fuel cost and maintenance).
What confuses me is the subsidy for hybrid vehicles. Pure electric vehicles are more costly to build and are better for the environment but get the same subsidy. The likely outcome of the currently structured tax credit is the proliferation of hybrid vehicles and the slowdown of fully electric vehicles.
It's very unfortunate that the government is subsidizing PHEVs. They are the worst of both worlds. People are going to buy PHEVs "now" instead of waiting a year or two to buy a BEV. IMO the purpose of this was to help out the troubled traditional automakers who are having a hard time transitioning to BEVs. They'll throw a small battery and motor onto an ICE vehicle, get the subsidy, sell a ton of them and delay bankruptcy for a few years. The sad thing is this will also delay the automakers' transitions to making BEVs and delay our transition to a sustainable future.Given the price differences between PHEVs and EVs, and limited selection of EVs under $50K, I would be surprised if people are cross-shopping the two. A Ford Escape PHEV is around $38K (before any tax credit); not too far off the ICE price and still 20% cheaper than the closest EV SUV (the ID4.) With gas prices dropping, interest rates rising, recession etc etc., its gonna be hard for folks to justify spending an extra $20-30K on a BEV (not including difficulties and costs setting up L2 charging at home.) It seems like a decent middle ground until the cheaper options come as PHEVs can handle a lot of daily driving in full electric.
Given the significantly constrained availability of raw materials for batteries during a period of transition, is it more sustainable to put one long range Model Y on the road or five PHEVs?I agree with you that this is a no-brainer from a consumer's perspective. The subsidy will make it irresistible financially and will fool people into thinking they are helping sustainability.
I have on mine but I don’t know if it’s limited to FSD.
While car prices have increased so has most everything including wages. Did anyone imagine you could earn $22 an hour as an Apple Store host, or $18 at McDonalds? Yes EV’s are absolutely expensive and no not Everyone will be able to jump in but in time as they improve the values will go up and likely the price will lower. Many do however need to remember it’s Not the cost to buy, it’s the cost to Own a car. And Anyone that thinks the cost of gas won’t be an issue again is kidding themselves let alone miraculously not contributing to destroy our planet for our future.The same sentiment here. My Model Y was the most expensive vehicle I've ever purchased. And while I could see myself reaching a little bit more for an MYP at the right price.. I don't ever see myself paying more than $60K for a vehicle. The idea of buying a $70K or $80K Model Y.. just doesn't even compute in my brain.
We also have to be realistic about EV adoption. If the idea is to get most people to give up their ICE for EVs over the next 10-15 years.. then it's not going to happen with $55K sedans or $80K SUVs. Most people I know either have never purchased a new vehicle.. or if they did we are talking about $30-$40K range. With gas prices back down to very reasonable amounts.. I just don't ever see the average consumer switching to an EV.. at current pricing levels. They might as well be giving those $7,500 rebates on new Range Rovers and Bentleys.
Battery material supplies are ramping up rapidly. My concern is people buying a PHEV due to the EV tax credit and then regretting that decision in just a few years, well under the lifetime of the car. It's more sustainable for people to wait a couple of years so they can buy a BEV instead of buying a PHEV now. Either those PHEVs won't see a full life or they will delay the adoption of BEVs for many people by 5 or 10 years.Given the significantly constrained availability of raw materials for batteries during a period of transition, is it more sustainable to put one long range Model Y on the road or five PHEVs?
This is not as easy a question to answer as you pretend it is.
This is not as easy a question to answer as you pretend it is.
This argument kinda reminds me of the expression that it is expensive to be poor. If folks can’t afford it today, it won’t matter how future proof something is.It's counterproductive to make a huge investment in old technology that has a 10+ year lifespan when a more affordable new technology is just a few years away.
in China, the LRY was recently cut to $45K. Why should it be incentivized to buy at $67K?
Tesla Model 3/Model Y prices in China:
- Tesla Model 3 RWD (LFP): *265,900 CNY ($36,610) - down 14,000 CNY or 5.0%
(from 279,900 CNY)- Tesla Model 3 Performance: 349,900 CNY ($48,175) - down 18,000 CNY or 4.9%
(from 367,900 CNY)- Tesla Model Y RWD (LFP): *288,900 CNY ($39,776) - down 28,000 CNY or 8.8%
(from 316,900 CNY)
Actually, the change is 16,912 CNY (5.3%) plus 11,088 CNY subsidy on top of it.- Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD: 357,900 CNY ($49,277) - down 37,000 CNY or 9.4%
(from 394,900 CNY)- Tesla Model Y Performance: 397,900 CNY ($54,784) - down 20,000 CNY or 4.8%
(from 417,900 CNY)
* including 11,088 CNY ($1,526) subsidy