IRS weighs in on tax rebate, mostly bad news for Model Y

[Daekwan]

If true, then



does not follow. I owned the Prius Prime in 2017 and plugged in every day so that my 90 mile commute was improved by the small pack. I averaged 90 mpg. Since I also used the car to take 500 mile r/t drives 2 or 3 times a week, it was used exactly as you described. But then I swapped it for a Tesla, and the pure EV was much, much, much better in all respects. It comes down to this: so long as the EV covers the long trips (or you have some alternative arrangement), the PHEV is markedly inferior in real life. On paper, it shines.

^^ That Prius Prime year was while I worked, and drove a lot. Now I am quite satisfied with a mid-range EV only. We rent for the other occasions.

The average commute in the US is 27 miles. The RAV4 prime has a pure electric of 41 miles. I think it’s pretty easy to understand what I was saying.

 

[SageBrush]

I think it’s pretty easy to understand what I was saying.

It is easy to see that you have no experience with PHEV. You see the flexibility on paper, and it obviously exists. The car worked well for me during the year I owned it, operated using all the flexibility it allows. What is less obvious is that the flexibility has trade-offs that are not really apparent until you live with the car for a while. Here are the major ones:

1. You have to plug-in after just about every drive to maximize the EV potential, and there is always the temptation to get lazy and use the ICE
2. In the winter it pollutes more than a hybrid because of the repetitive warming/cooling cycles of the ICE
3. The car reminds you just how shitty ICE driving actually is every time it transitions from EV. Many owners turn into OCD maniacs who drive like fools, all to avoid the EV to ICE transition.

In short, if ICE driving does not bother you then you tend to ignore the EV ability. If you think ICE driving is inferior, then the PHEV rubs your nose in it all too frequently. I'm not at all surprised that the market chooses hybrids or EVs. PHEVs are bought when Gov perks and subsidies are attractive.

 

[Daekwan]

Dude I don’t know what you want from me. I’m not trying to get in some long winded right vs wrong debate. I was making a really simple statement. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Enjoy your day!

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

It has rear cross traffic alerts and when you back up a small video screen shows the back of the car near the steering wheel on the dashboard
Sort of like when Elon promised 360 view (what year was that again?)

I think we just got 360 view in the last holiday update.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

I think we just got 360 view in the last holiday update.

How? Where? Does is require EAP/FSD?

 

[arbitrage000]

I think we just got 360 view in the last holiday update.

Um no we didn't. Unless Tesla adds a front bumper camera we never will get 360 view. So on any car currently in service it will never happen.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

How? Where? Does is require EAP/FSD?

I have on mine but I don’t know if it’s limited to FSD.

 

[Rally]

What a load! What difference does the number of seats make? If I take the third row of seats out of a Tahoe or Explorer it's no longer an SUV?
I will be interested if this is changed, or if the IRS is now part of the anti-Tesla club.

 

[brancky3]

I have on mine but I don’t know if it’s limited to FSD.

lol that is very far from a 360 cam

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

lol that is very far from a 360 cam

How far? It shows you 360 degrees surrounding information and alerts if you are getting too close. What else is missing? Sure it’s not the fancy 3D views from other cars like Hyundai, but I find those 3D videos like in Ioniq 5 tend to lag in the display, so you can’t really trust it in tight spot.

 

[Snow Drift]

Electrek is showing a Model Y AWD in the configurator for $61,990. Still way over $55k. I can’t imagine Tesla is going to let the Y not qualify for anything. Either they get re-rated to an SUV, or something has to change.

Tesla prepares launch of a cheaper Model Y electric SUV

Tesla is apparently preparing to launch a cheaper version of the Model Y electric SUV, according to an update to its online configurator.

electrek.co

 

[brancky3]

How far? It shows you 360 degrees surrounding information and alerts if you are getting too close. What else is missing? Sure it’s not the fancy 3D views from other cars like Hyundai, but I find those 3D videos like in Ioniq 5 tend to lag in the display, so you can’t really trust it in tight spot.

360 cams are mostly useful for seeing if you're within the parking lines and showing any obstructions live on camera. I can look out my window to see how close I am to the car next to me / in front of me, but I can't see the lines without a 360 cam.

 

[The Batman]

Biden admin quietly adds workaround, making pricey sports cars eligible for EV tax credits

The Biden administration released guidance Thursday showing that any electric vehicle would still be eligible for tax credits if leased despite the strict requirements for purchases.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[ucmndd]

If I take the third row of seats out of a Tahoe or Explorer it's no longer an SUV?

No, because they are both over 6,000 pounds GVWR and meet the clearance requirements that define a utility vehicle, where as the Model Y, Mach E etc meets none of them.

I will be interested if this is changed, or if the IRS is now part of the anti-Tesla club.

The IRS did not:

Write the regulations that define these classes of vehicles

Submit eligibility lists - the manufacturers did that themselves

Unfairly single out Tesla - other fake SUVs like the Mustang Mach E do not qualify either.

 

[Snow Drift]

And the Ioniq 5 is SUV of the Year…

 

[Hiline]

And the Ioniq 5 is SUV of the Year…

I am 100% cool with going back to the root of the SUV and not abusing the term for marketing of a taller sedan with a hatch.

 

[ucmndd]

And the Ioniq 5 is SUV of the Year…

Colloquially, SUV has become a meaningless term. It’s been that way for decades.

But marketing departments don’t make that distinction in the eye of the government, and never have.

 

[norcalbowler94]

Based on my sample of knowing 1 RAV4 Prime owner, and meeting 1 other, I'd say that 100% of RAV4 Prime owners plug in.

RAV4 Prime is $11k more than the hybrid so if you're not going to plug, then performance is the only reason to buy it, and if you really care about performance, there's an abundance of choices out there.

You can charge it with a long overnight charge on 120V, and over 70% of new vehicle buyers have off-street parking. Torque News polled people on a forum, and 93% were plugging in.

I know one rav4 prime owner and he doesn’t plug at home but his wife does when she’s at work. He paid 5k over sticker. Can’t remember when but it was at the height of low inventory.

Edit-he lives in an apartment. If he had a home he probably would charge at home.

 

[Snow Drift]

Colloquially, SUV has become a meaningless term. It’s been that way for decades.

But marketing departments don’t make that distinction in the eye of the government, and never have.

If the IRS does not change their definition, or fix what they wrote, I could see this having major implications.

Imagine being a random consumer, purchase a MME, (which magazines and everyone else considers an SUV), file taxes and then be denied the $7,500 credit. People will flip.

Or, if Hyundai was actually eligible, you walk into the dealer to buy the "SUV of the Year," and again, NOPE, not eligible for the lease incentive. Why? Well, approach angle... People will be so confused and upset.

 

[randmness]

I'm not surprised at the IRS playing hardball with the classifications defined under Title 49. The MME pretty much has the same ground clearance as a Model 3. Is seating position enough to mark one as a sedan or SUV?