I agree, @spatterso911. The 40kWh car is clearly targeting the "around town" market, including long commutes. If you want to do inter-city driving, the 60kWh is the entry point.
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Is anyone actually buying the 40 kWh Model S at this point?
- Thread starter Rifleman
- Start date
Or buy a 40 kWh and save the $12k for those infrequent road trips by either (A.) renting a car, or (B.) use an existing ICE you already have. It's not as appealing I know, but it's certainly the practical thing to do. Frankly the 40 kWh was nothing more than Tesla being able to claim that the Model S has a sub $50k starting price (after the tax rebate that is).
And in response to splatterso911. You make a good point, which is exactly why I think Tesla needs to license out (at no cost) its Supercharger technology for 3rd party businesses to deploy. These businesses should be allowed to charge in a pay-as-you-go fashion, while official Tesla stations would remain free. It at least gives us Model S owners more options and it will expedite the Supercharger network build-up, while also filling in some of the gaps you mention in between Tesla's own SC stations. Frankly, this is exactly why Tesla should have gone with a pay-as-you-go system to begin with. It would have allowed such a 3rd party model to be consistent with its own, and Tesla could receive a commission for each and every SC payment.
Doesn't this $2K on the 60kWh battery mean the jump to 85 is effectively just $8K now?
Bizarre; starting with the base 40kWh and upgrading bit by bit, you get:
+10K too add 20kWh (going to 60kWh)
+2K to add supercharger
+8K to add 25kWh! (going to 85kWh) <- great deal!
The 60kWh is, seemingly, poor on the value for money front. Perhaps because it uses a (unconfirmed) different battery mix than then 40kWh pack? Why is the jump to 60 so much more than the jump to 85?
Bizarre; starting with the base 40kWh and upgrading bit by bit, you get:
+10K too add 20kWh (going to 60kWh)
+2K to add supercharger
+8K to add 25kWh! (going to 85kWh) <- great deal!
The 60kWh is, seemingly, poor on the value for money front. Perhaps because it uses a (unconfirmed) different battery mix than then 40kWh pack? Why is the jump to 60 so much more than the jump to 85?
To me it's the 60 kWh car that seems to be the odd man out. That is the 40 kWh is the around-town vehicle for a reasonable price. The 85 kWh car is a real car that just happens to be electric. The 60 kWh car isn't really enough to do lots of trips with (especially when the weather is poor) and it's kind of expensive to just use as a commuter car.
kevincwelch
Active Member
And this is precisely why I am highly considering the 85 kWh model. I came to that realization as I was figuring out how I (theoretically) would travel to Boston or Philadelphia with the Model S. I wouldn't be able to reach the superchargers in some cases they way I drive (80 mph, AC blasting) with the 60 kWh model. As you point out, can't do intercity driving very well with the S60 and it is overkill for the daily around town work commuter.
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It's funny because prior to the supercharging event I was debating between the 60 and 85. Right after I then went to debating between the 85 and the performance. After talking to a good friend of mine I realized that while having a car that does 0-60 in 4.4 is awesome is it really worth $30,000 more for the one trip I might take a year when we could just drive my wife's car?
Now I'm gonna save the cash I would have put down and I'll buy the 40. I rarely drive over 60 miles a day and we have an ICE in my wife's car (SUV and easier for travel with the kids)
Basically I would have bought the 60 but not for a $12,000 premium over the 40.
Also, a regular HPWC will charge this battery 50% in one hour (with optional 20 kw charger) If you are buying this car and want fast charging upgrade the onboard charging.
I plan on doing a mostly free cross country trip and camping + California Oregon Washington Corridor free. Your wife's car can never do that
but a 40 makes very much sense for 95% of miles and I would get a performance and a 40 if I had 'endless' money
good choice :>
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Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
Welcome, David.
Have you signed the MVPA? When?
It will be interesting to see when you get your car. Tesla has said that the 40kWh battery enters production Dec 2012, and since you have a rather low P number I think technically you should get it in Dec but given the recent delays on Signature cars I suspect there's a chance that you'll be delayed in to Jan. Let's hope not!
I'm also concerned about the 60 being delayed as well. We haven't seen EPA figures or crash testing (if indeed they use different number of cells and therefore have a weight and potentially structural difference compared to the 85).
There's a separate thread about R (roadster friend and family) holders who have ordered the 60 and 40, and we will be behind them.
Have you signed the MVPA? When?
It will be interesting to see when you get your car. Tesla has said that the 40kWh battery enters production Dec 2012, and since you have a rather low P number I think technically you should get it in Dec but given the recent delays on Signature cars I suspect there's a chance that you'll be delayed in to Jan. Let's hope not!
I'm also concerned about the 60 being delayed as well. We haven't seen EPA figures or crash testing (if indeed they use different number of cells and therefore have a weight and potentially structural difference compared to the 85).
There's a separate thread about R (roadster friend and family) holders who have ordered the 60 and 40, and we will be behind them.
Chas F
Model S 60kWh #P6396
I have reserved a black 40kW Model S but haven't signed my MVPA yet. Will probably sign within the next week or so. Definitely by Thanksgiving. I'm expecting a Feb '13 delivery.
MVPA signed
Kipernicus:
I signed the MVPA 8/1/12 and don't have a clue as to when I may get my vehicle. I bought a nicely equipt S but with 40kWh battery. I am a town driver and have another nice car if we need to take a road trip. This car has way more than I'll ever use around town especially with a full battery every morning. I have already figured what the electric cost is in my area with taxes included. It is 10.7 cents a kWh or $4.28 for 40kWh/160 miles or = $.027/mi. At 10000 a year that only $270 a year compared to my Ford F150 which cost me $3300 last year for less than 10000 miles. 5 years = >$15150 saving and I would say plus no maintenance but Tesla fixed that! Thats a bargain with a 8 year battery warranty.
Kipernicus:
I signed the MVPA 8/1/12 and don't have a clue as to when I may get my vehicle. I bought a nicely equipt S but with 40kWh battery. I am a town driver and have another nice car if we need to take a road trip. This car has way more than I'll ever use around town especially with a full battery every morning. I have already figured what the electric cost is in my area with taxes included. It is 10.7 cents a kWh or $4.28 for 40kWh/160 miles or = $.027/mi. At 10000 a year that only $270 a year compared to my Ford F150 which cost me $3300 last year for less than 10000 miles. 5 years = >$15150 saving and I would say plus no maintenance but Tesla fixed that! Thats a bargain with a 8 year battery warranty.
I noticed the 60kWh model had been delayed again. I called Tesla and was told the 40kWh model would not go into production until March of 2013. I have had my order (MVPA) in to the factory since 8/1/2012. Tesla has been advertising the 40kWh model from day 1 at $49500 with Fed. tax incentive but has yet to produce one. This seems a little deceptive because if I want one this year I have to upgrade $21500.00 to the 85kWh model with air suspension. That wasn't required when I made the reservation. Because of the delay, I am not able to use the $7500 tax credit for 2012 that I kept from paying to the Feds. and may have to pay an estimated underpayment penalty. I was one of the original believers and laid down my $5000 7/21/2009 P1020. I helped them with funds to make it a reality and thought I would receive some priority in production of the first models. Instead Tesla continues to abuse me for selecting a model of lesser cost. I want the car so I guess I'll continue to wait. PS: Also a Tesla stock holder so I am a believer. David Slagle
Everyone's anxiety about getting their car is quite high, me included. I too, will be ordering a 40Kw pack car, and to be fair Tesla has stated (back in August) on their website that the 40Kw pack would enter production in "winter" and on some screens it showed December 2012. As for most companies in the valley, entering production in December is likely the tail-end of december, and not the optimistic Dec 1st.
Everything seems to have been pushed. While disappointing, in the big scheme of things, it's a couple of months delay from an aggressive rollout plan that didn't pan out. I believe it'll all be worth it in the end.
Everything seems to have been pushed. While disappointing, in the big scheme of things, it's a couple of months delay from an aggressive rollout plan that didn't pan out. I believe it'll all be worth it in the end.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After I take delivery of the car this will all go away. Presently I'm watching a large number of people leap frogging me just because they will spend more money. Tesla also doesn't have to make any changes to production, its simply easier and the best method for a faster profit. I read today that Tesla would produce in the neighborhood of 3000-3500 cars by years end. My order #1020 seems to be within those production numbers but not using Tesla arithmetic. I'm sure a discount for my patients and 3+ year $5000 deposit is out of the question too. Disappointed[/FONT]
That sucks and I understand why you are disappointed. Any case to be made on your part for upgrading to the 85 kWh pack if they could get you your car this calendar year? It doesn't sound like you need that much range but wasn't sure if it could possibly replace another car you had as well with the extra range and the planned Superchargers (which will take time).
Hey David,
While there is some merit to your sentiment, you should note a number of things:
Your real number is something more inline with 2670 (1200 NA Sigs, 450 R's, 1020 P's). This puts you just in the cusp of getting your car this year before you take into account options.
It is unrealistic to expect all options to be built by the factory on day one, and we saw that with the reduced choices presented to the Sigs.
Your assumption that Tesla doesn't have to make any changes to production to produce a 60/40KWH battery is not true, they must first make something different, then fully regression test it, then crash test it and go back and have it certified by the varrious government bodies. All of which takes lots of engineering time, and dealing with certifications is always a large hassle and very time consuming.
I have no doubt that Tesla could have produced all options from day one, but it would have delayed production by months for everyone, and most likely hurt quality at the same time.
Peter
Hi Peter. Is your car P-174 going to be delayed? My statement was they didn't have to change production to continue making the present cars. (Presently I'm watching a large number of people leap frogging me just because they will spend more money. Tesla also doesn't have to make any changes to production, its simply easier and the best method for a faster profit.) I know they will have to alter the production line to make other models and options. When I first ordered a Tesla S none of the things such as executives, Signatures Series, prior Roadster owners or anything else was mentioned pertaining to delaying the reservation order. I understand loyalty and executives but money shouldn't have been a factor for delivery. Tesla has just adjusted reservations to fit their own needs. In school, they taught me that was wrong. Tesla just said give me money for a preorder reservation with no other explanations from Tesla pertaining to possible delays when production began. Question; If you go to a restaurant and someone comes in and gets the table you have been waiting for a long time just because they are going to spend more, would you be disappointed in the restaurants decision or would you speak up? I haven't seen anything from Tesla explaining the delay is based on new crash testing being required for the lower kWh cars. I would somewhat more understanding. I am trying to be patient but my number is still in those production numbers being made even based on your numbers. Everyone should have waited or discount (pay a fine) based on the delay of preorder reservation. That's fair. Still Disappointed
One other thing about the Tesla Model S 40kWh model. Tesla continues to advertise based on cost of the 40kWh model at $49900 with Federal Tax Credit. Tesla Model S 40kWh model is presently not available for sale, yet to be seen or tested. The advertising at this time should be for the Tesla Model S 85kWh model available starting at $69900 with Federal Tax credit - (Tesla S 40kWh and 60kWh models will be available soon at a lower cost). Advertising a cars price in unknown availability status is wrong. I'm still unclear as to when the Tesla S 40kWh model will be produced and available for sale. Still Disappointed
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