Is Autopilot hw1 AP 1.0 worth buying with hw2 out?

[Gizmotoy]

AP1 is currently better than AP2. Elon has confirmed that development will continue. Only you can determine if it's worth 3k for the convenience provided.

I mostly agree, but with caution: if AP1 doesn't do what OP wants right now, he probably shouldn't expect major new features. The vast majority of effort is going to go into AP2.

For example, take the classic pre-AP cars: Elon promised ongoing development. We've gotten a few token items and have largely gotten the same OS revisions, but most of the improvements promised never came. Our dashboards still mismatch the flat design of the rest of the OS. My car has the ultrasonic parking sensors, which went on to be used in AP1, but they've effectively been abandoned in the classic configuration. Mine have issues and the guidance is that we're waiting to see if they ever get updated, and hoping maybe that would fix them.

I still think it's safe to recommend AP1, but just be aware of how Tesla's treated older hardware in the past, even if that hardware is related or incorporated into current hardware.

 

[Electroman]

I still think it's safe to recommend AP1, but just be aware of how Tesla's treated older hardware in the past

I think the point AP1 owners in this thread are trying to make is, AP1 doesn't need any more refinement and it works so damn well. Leave the AP1 folks alone and no more updates please (in general recent updates have been restrictions). When 8.0 came I think AP1 is pretty much complete. I think they have maxed out what they can do with AP1 hardware and I am perfectly fine with that. I don't need no stinkin 8 cameras to do what AP1 does on the highways today - which in my opinion is close to flawless.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I think the point AP1 owners in this thread are trying to make is, AP1 doesn't need any more refinement and it works so damn well. Leave the AP1 folks alone and no more updates please (in general recent updates have been restrictions). When 8.0 came I think AP1 is pretty much complete. I think they have maxed out what they can do with AP1 hardware and I am perfectly fine with that. I don't need no stinkin 8 cameras to do what AP1 does on the highways today - which in my opinion is close to flawless.

In case it wasn't clear, I totally agree with that sentiment. AP1 is good, and if OP is happy with what it does, there's no reason to be worried about it (other than perhaps the resale value hit as AP2-specific features come online).

 

[suraj1194]

It's debatable whether AP2 will generate significant resale value. The autonomous driving world is changing very fast. AP2 is clearly far superior hardware than AP1. Yet, technically, AP2 is one year old hardware; NVIDIA Drive PX2 was released at CES 2016, and the new Xavier platform was released at CES 2017:

NVIDIA Teases Xavier, a High-Performance ARM SoC for Drive PX & AI

The pace of technological development and corresponding regulatory process makes the question of value retention a very hazy one for me. Unlike with a regular car, Tesla's are an electronic gadget whose innards are going through rapid evolution both in terms of hardware and software, and recent history shows that by the time software has evolved via progressive fleet learned finetuning, the hardware itself has been supplanted by newer better things.

This is like the early stages of the smartphone evolution, where stuff doubled in hardware capability each year, and it was years before things flattened out and the upgrade incentive became less critical.

Therefore, the reason I'm happy with AP1 is that I get a very mature platform whose evolution is already near its zenith. Sure, it's missing some originally promised on ramp to off ramp capabilities, but in reality, I don't trust the traffic around me to feel comfortable letting a car do that today anyway, nor do I think regulatory issues have as yet been ironed out. In other words, I don't feel comfortable with the current L2->L3 transition efforts enough.

There's a huge difference between an uber cruise control (which is what AP1 is) and traffic ingress/egress, which AP2 takes on. AP1 just does that to a very limited extent, under user direction. But traffic intervention brings about a whole host of new concerns. AP1 on the other hand has been addressed through decades of regulatory stability around the use of cruise control.

Both the technological and regulatory processes are yet to converge to stability, and with AP2 I'm effectively just funding that effort but not getting its benefits. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. Tesla depends on us investing in their efforts at the cutting edge. Yet, if I'm going to use AP2 as nothing much more than an AP1, I'd rather just have AP1, and then get AP3 or whatever is the stable L3 platform a few years down the line.

 

[Electroman]

At this time, for alteast the next few years, AP2 is all hot air.. IMHO of course.

 

[mbhforum]

I made the decision to purchase a 2015 CPO D85 with AP1 instead of a 2017 D60 with AP2 last month. My rationale was:

1) I am getting better range with the CPO and some additional options like power liftgate, power roof for the same money.
2) While I craved AP 2.0, I knew it would be time before it caught up to AP 1.0 and the FSD was just simply not a reality legally for a good few years. I see my next car having that feature. The other benefits of AP 2 vs 1 remain to be seen and are pretty unknown at this point.

I commute daily 30 miles to work and back and 90% of those miles are with AP 1.0 and it's AWESOME!

 

[justg0]

I had the same decision to make back in Nov. See this thread: AP1 vs. AP2. At that time more people were in favor of AP2, now it looks like AP1. How things change

I went with AP2. If you ask me right now, I feel I should have gone with AP1. But I am pretty sure (hopefully) in 6 months I will be glad I went with AP2.

 

[ElectricTundra]

AP2 being out, and even it catching up and surpassing AP1 has no bearing on AP1's functionality and usefulness.

For me AP1 has been worth every penny. At least until the latest increase of nag frequency. I used it frequently on road trips, on longer stretches around town, and in stop, slow, and go traffic. I use it less frequently now due to nags.

I assume that Tesla will roll out the rest of what they promised for AP1. If for no other reason than to avoid the class action lawsuit that several people keep talking about and to avoid bad publicity from unhappy customers.

 

[ElectricTundra]

If you ask me right now, I feel I should have gone with AP1. But I am pretty sure (hopefully) in 6 months I will be glad I went with AP2.

My guess is that AP2 will largely catch up to AP1 within the next few months and begin to surpass it by the end of the year. If I'd purchased a new car right after AP2 intro I think I'd be quite happy with what the future holds and wouldn't mind the bit of delay. OTOH, I'm quite happy with my AP1. Whether AP2 will prove to be worth whatever premium over AP1 in current dollars is tough to say.

 

[Joetnr1]

I just upgraded a month ago and I haven't looked back. If you've got the extra 3k I think it's fully worth it.

 

[Sonny Daze]

Absolutely not. Everyone with AP1 hardware should upgrade to a new AP2 vehicle. I know this would drive down the prices of AP1 vehicles but it's in everyone's best interest (well, at least mine).

 

[skyhix]

thank you all for all the great information and experiences with autopilot. You all have convinced me to go ahead and get it while I can because at the moment it's the best available.

It definitely seem that you all work in the Tesla sales department, but that's probably not true.

 

[justg0]

Just saw this tweet from EM:

Almost there is probably still 6 months in Tesla time

 

[chillaban]

Just saw this tweet from EM:

View attachment 213606

Almost there is probably still 6 months in Tesla time

We've talked about this a little….

"Almost there" at a rate of increasing 5mph every week or two, with some folks who still can't get the system activated at all?
"Just being very careful" would be plausible if we see the system working bulletproof at the 35mph/45mph/50mph capped speeds. But we see it wobbling around, suddenly braking, diving for exits, not detecting cars beside you, etc? What's careless about showing cars next to you on the screen if you can recognize them? And what about AutoPark, Summon, etc which purely use ultrasonics currently to move the car in an extremely simple manner?


Quite honestly, it looks like the software simply isn't ready yet, and is being developed slowly. The team hacked together some proof of concept demoware over the course of 500-1000 autonomously driven miles to make 2 videos of self-driving capabilities. The paperwork they filed for those videos show a driver takeover event like every 2 minutes.


*shrug* Don't hold your breath. For now, the real question is, are you buying your car for its abilities right now (to a few months by now), or for capabilities that will slowly become available over the course of this year and next year?

 

[ElectricTundra]

*shrug* Don't hold your breath. For now, the real question is, are you buying your car for its abilities right now (to a few months by now), or for capabilities that will slowly become available over the course of this year and next year?

You're not really going to lose either way. AP1 - you get the best system currently available and get to enjoy it's features (and anything they add) for the next number of years. AP2 - you slowly gain capabilities and likely by the end of the year have the best system available with a lot of capability increases in the next year or two.

 

[hariclt]

One question for the group .. assuming someone is willing to go back to ICE ... will Mercedes or Audi surpass AP2? Mercedes getting some very good press - never tried their stuff and not saying go back to ICE - but if you can lease and E class Benz with better than AP1 for 700 a month ... is it worth it to buy an AP1 car?

 

[chillaban]

One question for the group .. assuming someone is willing to go back to ICE ... will Mercedes or Audi surpass AP2? Mercedes getting some very good press - never tried their stuff and not saying go back to ICE - but if you can lease and E class Benz with better than AP1 for 700 a month ... is it worth it to buy an AP1 car?

Those are some tall claims, "better than AP1".... Have you experienced it yourself?

I test drove the 2017 E class with DISTRONIC PLUS / DRIVE PILOT and it was far inferior to AP1. It was slow to detect cars cutting in and out, approached stopped traffic with scary speed, and you were genuinely afraid to let go of the wheel because you never knew if the car was going to follow a curve or suddenly give out and just continue going straight off the road.

With that said, Mercedes claims that the 2018 "DRIVE PILOT 2" is better than AP1, but you cannot buy that yet.

The interior of the Mercedes E class is exquisite and a work of art. I'll give them that. But in terms of ADAS systems, right now I see zero evidence that Mercedes is competitive with Tesla. And be careful about magazine impressions with non-production sample vehicles and what a manufacturer claims they will put on the market. Audi's been playing the "Traffic Jam Assist" marketing demo game in Las Vegas since 2012 or so, yet their 2017 A4/Q7 vehicles will only do lane centering up to 35mph with 2 or more cars visible ahead, 10 seconds of hands off wheel, and TACC HOLD if you stop for 3 seconds.

 

[Yarder]

I think it totally depends on where you drive. In the last mile to my home, there's no painted center line nor a fog line. Or the center line is dotted yellow reflectors and not white. AP1 has trouble with that, so I have to manually drive the car. There's also a hilly, curvy section about 10 miles away that require me to take over as AP wants to maintain the speed limit NOT the suggested warning curve speeds. On the freeway on the long straight stretches, I could easily go to sleep, it's so good.

So, if you have well marked centerlines and foglines, then AP 1 is great. It's even better than me driving because it maintains the speed limit. On the cruise control, I can set a speed and the car maintains that, but I have to re-set it for varying limits. AP1 does that for me.

I will be happy with this as is for years to come!

 

[Shock-On-T]

I was considering the upgrade for autopilot 1.0, but not too sure now with AP 2.0 out. Not sure if Tesla is planning on doing anything further with AP 1.0.

I am hoping someone can help me decide if autopilot is worth it even though it's only 1.0. With AP 2.0 out, would you all still pay for autopilot 1.0 if you don't currently have that upgrade? Is it with the 3K?

It's well worth it!
Makes freeway driving much less tiring and safer.

 

[Electroman]

Just saw this tweet from EM:

View attachment 213606

Almost there is probably still 6 months in Tesla time

I will take that message with a :