Is it worth $3k for FSD for EAP owners

[VT_EE]

No.

Any time the car wants to change lanes you'll piss off everyone around you.

It seems the car has very limited vision. It slows down to change lanes instead of accelerating into the lane to properly merge with traffic. Signals to get over and waits too long to make the move.

It is far from ready.

If you do not drive with cars around you it works pretty well aside from the moments it slows down abruptly for no reason.

This is exactly why you want HW3. The new hardware will be able to handle 10 times the frame rate and therefore should be able to make better decisions at high speed.

 

[diplomat33]

None of these things exist yet.

Not true. The FSD computer exists.

 

[argon2018]

I know there’s already a thread discussing the FSD upgrade email EAP owners got. I’m starting a new thread to discuss over the next week before her 8/16 price hike, if it’s worth $3000 to get FSD especially since there is nothing new being added to EAP owners and that FSD is vapor ware. Any thoughts from other EAP owners out there?

When they start upgrading current HW2.5, there is no chance they will let you upgrade for 3K. New features like red light and stop sign detection is coming with V10 and I think HW3 will be a must for these. Buy it now for 3K and save yourself from a heartbreak later on for the new chip

 

[diplomat33]

I get that some people only want to pay for FSD when FSD features have been released and are proven to work really well. You don't want to buy something in advance when there is uncertainty about what or when features will be released. That is reasonable. But consider this: what happens in say 2-3 years when Tesla has released several FSD features and has made considerable progress and now, you definitely want to buy FSD but the price is $8000? You will hate yourself that you didn't buy it at $3000.

 

[argon2018]

When they start upgrading current HW2.5, there is no chance they will let you upgrade for 3K. New features like red light and stop sign detection is coming with V10 and I think HW3 will be a must for these. But it now for 3K and save yourself from a heartbreak later on for the new chip

This is exactly why you want HW3. The new hardware will be able to handle 10 times the frame rate and therefore should be able to make better decisions at high speed.

honestly my car has the HW2.5 and lane change on 28.2 today was out of this world. I changed 3 lanes in 20 seconds from far left to right to take an exit in Chicago and there was moderate traffic. The car acted like a human, sped up to change the lane. I was very surprised. I used to just take over when I wanted to change multiple lanes cause I would get impatient. The rate of improvement is unreal. In 1-2 years Tesla will be the best driver on the road

 

[diplomat33]

No.

Any time the car wants to change lanes you'll piss off everyone around you.

It seems the car has very limited vision. It slows down to change lanes instead of accelerating into the lane to properly merge with traffic. Signals to get over and waits too long to make the move.

It is far from ready.

If you do not drive with cars around you it works pretty well aside from the moments it slows down abruptly for no reason.

The latest version of NOA is a lot better now.

 

[daniel]

I know there’s already a thread discussing the FSD upgrade email EAP owners got. I’m starting a new thread to discuss over the next week before her 8/16 price hike, if it’s worth $3000 to get FSD especially since there is nothing new being added to EAP owners and that FSD is vapor ware. Any thoughts from other EAP owners out there?

You basically said it all there. FSD at this point is vaporware. Buy it if you believe it will materialize while you still own your car. Otherwise, maybe not.

BTW, I have EAP and have received no email.

I say yes if you plan to keep your car several years.

For $3000, you get:
- FSD computer upgrade
- "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Recognition"
- "Automatic City Driving"
- Any additional FSD features that may come after that.

Or at least, that's what they're promising. There's no reason to think that the HW3 computer will be any better than HW2.5 until the new software is delivered. And those other features will still be Level 2 for some time to come. EAP's shortcomings are mostly things I can anticipate: Construction zone ahead: disengage EAP, etc. But stoplight and stop sign recognition, if that fails to operate there's insufficient time to react. When those features are Level 3 and have demonstrated that they work, then I'll upgrade. As long as they're Level 2, I don't see the point.

I don’t know. I can always sell stocks and exercisable options in my portfolio.

Once you buy FSD, will Tesla refund your money if you don’t want it anymore?

Or is it like a “stock” that can’t be converted into money the moment you bought it? But may deliver something other than money if the “speculation” works out?

That’s a weird kind of stock.

If you change your mind, I highly doubt Tesla will refund your money. In a decade, if the cars still cannot do what Tesla promised they would, they might refund your money. I didn't buy FSD. But when I bought my car, Tesla promised that if I bought FSD, my car would, eventually (implication: before the car has reached the end of its expected life) be capable of operating as a robo-taxi.

Now they've moved the goal posts: If you buy "FSD" your car will someday get city/NoA at level 2, meaning driver present and alert at all times.

I get that some people only want to pay for FSD when FSD features have been released and are proven to work really well. You don't want to buy something in advance when there is uncertainty about what or when features will be released. That is reasonable. But consider this: what happens in say 2-3 years when Tesla has released several FSD features and has made considerable progress and now, you definitely want to buy FSD but the price is $8000? You will hate yourself that you didn't buy it at $3000.

Or consider this very similar proposition: Buy stock in my new company. I won't say yet what it's going to build, but if you wait, it could cost you three times as much.

"What if" is not a convincing argument. If you had bought Apple stock at the beginning you'd be a gazillionaire now. But at that time there were ten thousand guys building stuff that was indistinguishable from what Apple was doing and they all went bust. I believe in Tesla enough to have bought my Model 3. I don't think they can achieve real FSD, or even features that will be useful to me, while I expect to own this car (5 to 7 years).

And I'm convinced that HW3 and the current sensors will not be adequate. When they do have a FSD car to sell, I'll trade off mine for the new one.

 

[diplomat33]

Or consider this very similar proposition: Buy stock in my new company. I won't say yet what it's going to build, but if you wait, it could cost you three times as much.

"What if" is not a convincing argument. If you had bought Apple stock at the beginning you'd be a gazillionaire now. But at that time there were ten thousand guys building stuff that was indistinguishable from what Apple was doing and they all went bust. I believe in Tesla enough to have bought my Model 3. I don't think they can achieve real FSD, or even features that will be useful to me, while I expect to own this car (5 to 7 years).

It seems you are essentially betting against "FSD". But I think it is a bad bet. Even if you are right, the $3000 will still buy you some really nice L2 features. That's still a good deal IMO. And if you are wrong, you missed out on getting FSD at $3000 before it jumped to $8000 or more.

When they do have a FSD car to sell, I'll trade off mine for the new one.

The only problem with that is that once true FSD does become available, it will cost a heck of a lot more than $3000. You may not be able to afford it. Trading in your car for a FSD car could be a costly proposition.

 

[mongo]

No.

Any time the car wants to change lanes you'll piss off everyone around you.

It seems the car has very limited vision. It slows down to change lanes instead of accelerating into the lane to properly merge with traffic. Signals to get over and waits too long to make the move.

It is far from ready.

If you do not drive with cars around you it works pretty well aside from the moments it slows down abruptly for no reason.

By my reading, the OP currently has EAP, so doesn't that already include NoA?

 

[Dan123]

Not true. The FSD computer exists.

Where? Are they upgrading anyone to it?

 

[Dan123]

When they start upgrading current HW2.5, there is no chance they will let you upgrade for 3K. New features like red light and stop sign detection is coming with V10 and I think HW3 will be a must for these. Buy it now for 3K and save yourself from a heartbreak later on for the new chip

Or save $3000 and press the break pedal yourself. The red recognition will still require driver attention for the forseable future.

 

[diplomat33]

Where? Are they upgrading anyone to it?

Current Model 3's in production have the FSD computer. And we have pictures of the computer. So the computer does exist. Not sure about upgrades yet. But I am sure that will happen soon.

 

[diplomat33]

Or save $3000 and press the break pedal yourself. The red recognition will still require driver attention for the forseable future.

Well, you could save $35k and just take a bus. LOL.

 

[sprke]

I have EAP and got the email. However when I go in to purchase it, it's at $6,000...Does anyone else see have that?

I think it's worth it for the new hardware and I use the self driving features everytime I drive it. Love it.

 

[Octo]

But consider this: what happens in say 2-3 years when Tesla has released several FSD features and has made considerable progress and now, you definitely want to buy FSD but the price is $8000? You will hate yourself that you didn't buy it at $3000.

I think it’s kinda funny how you and I and others make assumptions. I could not care less about a $5000 delta over 2-3 years. I certainly wouldn’t hate myself. On the other hand I would feel extremely stupid if, after what has happened with Tesla FSD promises since 2016, I was still FOMOd into spending $3000 on a half working gimmick thinking it would become a robotaxi. Fool me twice lol.

It’s less about cash and more about self respect.

 

[dwalme]

really? Are you on latest firmware? The autolane change is night and day different from 2 months ago. It’s extremely smooth and quick on mad max mode literally as if a human is changing lane. It used to be a pain and I had turned it off but now it’s very quick

This is exactly why you want HW3. The new hardware will be able to handle 10 times the frame rate and therefore should be able to make better decisions at high speed.

The latest version of NOA is a lot better now.

My feedback is based on software version 2019.24.4 on HW3.

Regular AP is ok because you can control the lane changes. Although even at a follow distance of 1 the car leaves at least 3 car lengths between the car in front of me which really doesn't fly in traffic. I constantly get cut off because of this and irritate everyone behind me. I have to override speed with the accelerator to close the gap.

I expect it will get better. We'll see.

 

[diplomat33]

I think it’s kinda funny how you and I and others make assumptions. I could not care less about a $5000 delta over 2-3 years. I certainly wouldn’t hate myself. On the other hand I would feel extremely stupid if, after what has happened with Tesla FSD promises since 2016, I was still FOMOd into spending $3000 on a half working gimmick thinking it would become a robotaxi. Fool me twice lol.

It’s less about cash and more about self respect.

But like I said, at a minimum, you will get features like traffic light detection, "automatic city driving" and more for the $3000. You will get useful AP features even if your car is not a robotaxi.

I guess it boils down to what you think you will get for the $3000. If you think you will get a robotaxi at the end of next year, sure, I could totally see how you would not want to spend $3000 and be disappointed when the robotaxi does not happen. The truth is that our cars won't be robotaxis at the end of next year. DO NOT SPEND $3000 EXPECTING A ROBOTAXI NEXT YEAR!

But if you understand that the $3000 will get you the FSD computer and some nice AP features, then I think it makes total sense to buy the "FSD" package for $3000. You'll have a better AP for your money and if in 2-3 years, AP does become self-driving, then that's just a nice bonus.

 

[duanra]

Giving money to Tesla to fund something that doesn't exist yet is like paying for your kids education. It might be rewarding in the future...however Tesla is not my kids.
I'd rather save my cash for them...

 

[drj3]

I love my Model 3 and love my EAP features. I almost bought FSD at $2000, but my wife talked me out of it. Now at $3000 I'm not really even that tempted. Right now the only thing I know I get for $3000 is a place in line for a HW3 upgrade. I believe in Tesla and that they will get to real full self driving, but how long it will take to get past the "almost doesn't suck" phase and pass regulatory muster is a big question. For me to think it's worth $3000, I need to see something of value that I will get right away and not something that should come in the future. For now I'm happy I just hedged my bets and spent the $2000 on Tesla stock.

 

[tvad]

If you look at the $3000 as a donation to Tesla...as a cash infusion to keep the company solvent...with the possibility that you may benefit in the future with features that will cost new buyers more, then perhaps it will put a different perspective on the expenditure.

Each owner has to decide if the donation is within their budget and if the possibility of future benefits is worth the cost.

In my opinion, this is the bottom line.