Is Tesla changing warranty terms again, reducing coverage retroactively? [Website Error]

[Rocky_H]

I was also wondering about this.. They must have silently changed it at some point. The question is when? They can't go back on their word if they've already given people an unlimited mile warranty...

No, didn't silently change it. The original question was about a 75 battery. The smaller battery sizes did not have the unlimited miles on the battery warranty. This goes all the way back to 2012.

Yep, they changed mine for my '17 90D. It was 8 years and unlimited miles. Now its 8 years and 120,000 miles. I didn't get a memo warning.

Citation please. Was this on a replacement refurbished pack?

 

[Akikiki]

Hey Rocky_H, No. No work done on the car. Just spotted the change in my Tesla Account. > Manage > Details.

 

[Ken7]

Ok, so basically Tesla is laying the groundwork down so they have no legal obligation to fix things, in case it proves to be too expensive to them (like they never delivered the advertised hp on my car even though they did deliver it 3rd gen P90DL, so technically they could have upgraded the battery and other components on P85D). Basically, they'll your car under warranty it if they feel like it and doesn't affect their bottom line too much.

That’s all supposition on your part governed by your cynicism. Even if that becomes the case, there’s always legal recourse.

 

[Rocky_H]

No. No work done on the car. Just spotted the change in my Tesla Account. > Manage > Details.

Wow that's ridiculous. And I feel like it's probably...illegal? There's no way they can just go back on their word without a valid reason.

Well, then yes, that would apply that it's not legal to change that after the fact.

What I think is actually going on there, though, is that Tesla seems to not keep static versions of documents in each owner's account that apply to their particular car from when they bought it. Everything seems to get updated to the newest version, probably including that warranty document link. For instance, if I click on the "owner's manual", it sure isn't the owner's manual for MY car. My car doesn't have any cameras or radar or autopilot functions. Those didn't exist when I got my car. But the manual shown in my account is always the updated version with all of the new stuff in it.

So they can't change the warranty terms from when you bought your car, but the document linked in your account probably isn't the right one.

 

[Akikiki]

I agree with you. You put that quite well and clearly. "seems to not keep static versions of documents in each owner's account".
Seems as though we've seen something like this happen before. I'm not sweating it yet. Someone or two will get loud with EM over twitter and he will tell someone to fix it. So, a month from now, it will look right again.

 

[whitex]

That’s all supposition on your part governed by your cynicism. Even if that becomes the case, there’s always legal recourse.

You think Tesla would allow me to buy a car with goodwill payments?

 

[Gixx1300R]

 

[ucmndd]

Of course they didn’t. They can’t. It’s a website mistake and there’s already a big thread on this in the main forum.

come on people.

 

[ucmndd]

I don't think the 60, 70, or 75 sized batteries ever had the unlimited miles for their warranty. None of those 350V battery packs did. It was only the 85, 90, and 100 packs (the 400V types) that had the unlimited miles.

The ONLY battery with a different mileage-limited warranty is the original pre-facelift 60kwh. ALL others (2016+ software locked 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100) have the full 8 year unlimited mile warranty.

This is explicitly clear in the warranty doc available online right now.

 

[geoffmanley]

Mine also shows 120k miles for the battery/drive train warranty on the front page and clarifies it when you click learn more. Under Premium Connectivity it says free unlimited.

 

[Sherlo]

I agree that this is nothing to worry about. My account also shows the 8 year / 120,000 mile drivetrain warranty where it hadn’t before. However, if you click the Blue “learn more” link next to that, it takes you to the current version of the warranty, which still says 8 years and unlimited mileage for all model S and X except for the original 60 kWh battery. Just like it’s always been.
I did save a .pdf of that warranty though, just in case...

Exactly. I did the same when I noticed the warranty listed on the site was effective February 2019. I emailed legal at Tesla and requested the warranty in effect for 2018 (my model year) in case there are any differences. Legal responded the next day with a pdf.

 

[EVortex]

I emailed Tesla support about the 120,000 mile warranty limit on the vehicle information page. I have a 2018 S75D MCU2 so it should indicate unlimited miles. Tesla’s response provided a link to the warranty information page which indicates unlimited mileage except for the 60 which is 120,000 miles. This confirms to me that it is a website error. Maybe it was a missing use case for the condition of not a 60. Who knows? Here is Tesla Support’s response:

Thank you for contacting Tesla customer support. I apologize for the delay in response but am happy to assist.

I have looked into your account and see you have the New Vehicle Warranty as well as Battery Warranty and Drive Unit Dual Motor Warranty. To find further information on your warranties you can visit the following link Vehicle Warranty


Any additional questions or concerns regarding your warranty can be addressed at your Service Center. You can find the nearest location's address at the following link. Find Us | Tesla. You do not need an appointment in order to discuss warranty related issues as these visits can be handled as walk in requests.

Thank you for your support in transitioning the world to sustainable forms of energy consumption. Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns, I will be happy to assist you.

End of Tesla email...

Since web pages can change, here is what the link currently says (just documenting this in my post):

Vehicle Warranty

New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your vehicle is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

• Model S and Model X – 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first).
• Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
• Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla, which occur under normal use.

 

[Fredneck]

But the point is there was nothing they stated verbally or in writing (far more important) that said, “this is it buddy, you get one shot for a repair and you just got it”. It wasn’t on mine and I bet it wasn’t on your invoice either. Listening to WhiteX you’d think this was on everyone’s invoice. It’s not.

Most importantly, nobody that’s gotten the UV repair has seen any indication the yellowing is returning. Sure it’s early, but at least it’s a good sign.

Not much of a good sign. It can take a couple of years to show up for some. My car took a year. So why would you expect it to reappear in less time?

There’s just so much negativity from a few posters, it gets tiring.

Yeah, would you expect less when it is clear that Tesla is not really making an effort to make this right?

 

[Fredneck]

As I read it, here is the important part: in the purchasing agreement for the car (which is a legally binding contract), the language is spelled out as follows (bold added by me):

"Warranty. You will receive the Tesla New Vehicle Limited Warranty or the Tesla Used Vehicle Limited Warranty, as applicable, at or prior to the time of Vehicle delivery or pickup. You may also obtain a written copy of your warranty from us upon request or from our website."

What this means in plain terms is you get the warranty in place at the time you signed the agreement. There is nothing in the purchasing agreement that states that Tesla has the right to retroactively change the terms of the warranty in the future. From a legal perspective (and I am NOT a lawyer but I do know a few), ambiguity in a contract always favors the consumer. Bottom line is they can try to change the terms of the warranty retroactively but it won't stand up in court.

Now regarding specific individual items being covered, Tesla does have the right to make that determination. What they can't do is alter the terms of the warranty in place when the agreement was entered into (e.g. saying something used to be covered but now it's not). Warranties usually work one of two way; either inclusively or exclusively. It really depends on the wording of the warranty. Again unless it is CLEARLY spelled out that items not listed in the warranty document are not covered, I would bet Tesla would lose in court for trying to say something is not covered.

It is clearly indicated that the warranty does not cover "cosmetic" items. The issue is whether the visual nature of an electronic display is "cosmetic" or functional. It would be an interesting point to say a display is simply cosmetic.

 

[Fredneck]

And that still doesn’t mean they wouldn’t take care of a recurrence of yellowing. Just as they took care of what they considered a ‘non-warrantied’ item (yes, I agree it’s nonsense that this yellowing issue should be considered non-warranty) we don’t know they wouldn’t service the issue if it occurred a second time. You and I don’t know for one simple reason, nobody has had a recurrence post-treatment.

If I looked at everything Tesla as cynically as you, I’d sell my car in a heartbeat, financial loss be damned. It’s obviously causing you endless frustration & anger as evidenced by virtually every one of your posts. It’s not worth the high blood pressure you’ll get from this.

Maybe because you have not yet had the frustration of Tesla telling you they would not repair things on your vehicle or changing the terms of service or warranty as yet. Once it happens to you, you will not be happy either.

 

[Ostrichsak]

The ONLY battery with a different mileage-limited warranty is the original pre-facelift 60kwh. ALL others (2016+ software locked 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, 100) have the full 8 year unlimited mile warranty.

This is explicitly clear in the warranty doc available online right now.

You beat me to it. So much misinformation being spewed as fact all over this forum. Also, the pre-facelift 60kwh was also 8-years & unlimited miles. I know because I used to own a 2013.

Also, to the OP, you didn't buy a CPO last month because Tesla discontinued the CPO program nearly a year ago now. You purchased a used car from Tesla. Call it pre-owned if that makes you feel warm & fuzzy.

 

[ucmndd]

Also, the pre-facelift 60kwh was also 8-years & unlimited miles. I know because I used to own a 2013.

Alas, it wasn’t, and isn’t. This is plain as day in the current warranty text:

There’s a post in the main forum from this evening with someone finding this out the hard way...

What to do?!?!? 2013 Model S 60 Battery fail

 

[Ken7]

Not much of a good sign. It can take a couple of years to show up for some. My car took a year. So why would you expect it to reappear in less time?

Given that some saw the yellowing on their brand new cars within a couple of months, yes, I’d consider it a good sign that nobody has had a recurrence. Also, given the nature of the fix, curing the uncured glue, yes, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think the fix may be lasting.

Yeah, would you expect less when it is clear that Tesla is not really making an effort to make this right?

I would argue they are making an effort, but they need to expand the speed with which the devices are distributed and thus the availability of the fix.

 

[Ken7]

Maybe because you have not yet had the frustration of Tesla telling you they would not repair things on your vehicle or changing the terms of service or warranty as yet. Once it happens to you, you will not be happy either.

Well it’s already happened to me, hasn’t it? The yellowing is now deemed ‘cosmetic’. Yet they initiated the repair with no questions asked and no caveats. As I said, I could easily argue that this should have been tended to much earlier (I had to wait a year from the onset of the yellowing to the fix).

OTOH one could also argue that it took them a considerable amount of time to figure out what the issue was, develop a fix, develop equipment to initiate the repair and get that equipment out to the SCs. The replacement of the screens was obviously a poor fix since most owners reported recurrences within a short period. At this point in time should there be more of these devices to repair the screen? Absolutely, on that we can agree.

 

[cduzz]

Guys; the warranty in question is the drivetrain warranty. The warranty when we bought these cars was "8 years / unlimited miles".

A person selling a 2015 85D with 120,000 miles, before, could point to the warranty and say "see, tesla has you covered for years" to the prospective buyer.

Now they'd be selling a moldy black banana.

Tesla needs to fix this.