WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
Yup. But don’t let @CTruck_BMW read this. He got the perfect one and don’t you DARE tell him otherwise!
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Is the glass distortion still a problem for ‘24 model
- Thread starter Fstr
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- glass windshield
jebinc
Well-Known Member
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Here's a "how it's made" for windshield glass. Given it's made by a form, it's possible for earlier examples made in earlier production to not have distortion, and then as the form gets worn down, it would become less and less like the "perfect" designed example, so unintuitively, later examples may be worse than older examples until they replace the form.
If the glass is made like the video, it seems the glass has a lot of empty space to move (it's not like injection molding where the whole piece is enclosed), so that allows quite a bit of variation. So that appears it would allow for some examples to not have noticeable distortion and some to have it worse.
CTruck_BMW
23’ MS
Don’t be a piece of u know what. Smart boy acting as u know more about someone’s car than the owner himself. That’s as dumb as anyone would ever get.
CTruck_BMW
23’ MS
Finally someone posted, used his brain and knows how statistics work.
Thanks!
'22 MSLR had ripples and distortions, front and rear. Both were replaced three times and each time distortion was in different spots. All Tesla's and other manufacturers that I've seen now have distorted glass.
I believe the glass is made by a Japanese company that makes glass for Tesla and other car companies.
I can't back this up with facts, but I suspect post 2020 after covid shutdowns glass manufacturing quality just tanked.
I believe the glass is made by a Japanese company that makes glass for Tesla and other car companies.
I can't back this up with facts, but I suspect post 2020 after covid shutdowns glass manufacturing quality just tanked.
PR0FESSOR
Member
I just noticed this comment. Statistics is how I make my living, and this is not statistics, descriptive OR inferential. This is anecdotal speculation. This isn’t to say that an absolutely perfect piece of Tesla glass cannot be produced; it is just extremely unlikely.
Joe
Joe
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The point he was refuting however that all of them have distortion (presumably local distortion spots that are visible by naked eye, not talking about the overall natural gradual curvature of the glass). If the glass is made like the linked video above, even if someone observed that "all" of the Teslas they personally looked at have it, that doesn't mean that all Teslas in existence have it (or even necessarily close), given how much free variation that form allows.
Even the traditional lens making process where the glass is lapped to the final spec allows enough variation that "sample variation" is a very commonly discussed issue in camera lens circles. Most of the lenses in a sample would tend to be average, but there are a good number that perform well below average, even some rare "bad copies" that do way worse. But then there are some samples that are spectacular in performance. And lense designs that have huge variance (usually from a specified small tolerance in the design that is not actually achieved), tends to lead to spectacular copies. Here's an article on this:
Roger Cicala: the difference between sample variation and a 'bad copy' (Part 2)
Roger Cicala delves back into the murky waters of sample variation among lenses and explains how – depending on how you define your standards – you might end up getting multiple 'bad copies'.
m.dpreview.com
Unintuitively, the plastic lenses that phones use are far more consistent than traditional glass elements due to the difference in the process used.
The case would be different if windshield glass was made from more controlled processes like injection molding (like plastic cell phone lenses), where any lens characteristics observed even with a small sample are very likely inherent in the design (or the specific mold used), given very little variation in the process.
That part at 2:18 where they check the quality of the glass for distortion is when Tesla says, "Let them eat cake," and installs it anyway.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That part doesn't check for distortion as the glass shape haven't even been formed yet (it's still a flat sheet). There's no test chart or machine being shown that can be used to test distortion, rather there are lights that are likely used to check for chips/scratches/contamination just like in the stage during 4:30. At 5:10 they look at the windshield through polarized light to identify stress defects. There is no step shown where they test for distortion.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
What's wrong? The final glass shape isn't even formed until at 2:40, when it is put on the metal bending iron (then the oven further makes the glass settle into the form). The light they show at 2:18 appears to be the same type of "visual inspection" lights they use at 4:30 where they explicitly point out what they are checking for (none of which is distortion).
Edit, I googled another example:
They don't mention it at all, but at 4:49, it shows a test chart I was talking about that has a pattern that can be used to check for distortion as part of the final visual inspection. This is the stage where it makes sense to do it, given the glass have been formed, and the sheets have been laminated, so any distortions introduced in the steps in between can all be checked for together. The pattern is quite big though and it doesn't appear to be computerized, so it's possible however for even this test chart to miss more localized distortion (especially the type you only see it at a certain angle looking at one exact spot).
So either the "How It's Made" one didn't show all the tests, or that manufacturer that don't test for distortion.
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MobileMikeV
Member
For me, the glass has definitely been an issue.
I just picked up a 2024 Model S and, unfortunately, definitely lots of glass issues. I inspected carefully before accepting; however, it wasn't noticeable until I drove the car:
I have an appointment next week to have these glass components swapped out and asked service that I personally inspect them prior to installation. That being said, still might not know for sure until it is installed and the car is in motion.
To make this feel even worse, this Model S was a replacement for a buy-back Model X which, amongst MANY other issues, also had distorted front-passenger glass, which also made my wife and other passengers car sick in the same way. It was bad enough that we did a 6hr road trip through the White Mountains and my wife had to sit in the back because just a short time looking out that front window induces motion sickness. The second time we did this trip we decided to take the Model 3 purely because of the passenger window.
If they can't provide OEM glass that isn't defective, the two options are:
I just picked up a 2024 Model S and, unfortunately, definitely lots of glass issues. I inspected carefully before accepting; however, it wasn't noticeable until I drove the car:
- Windshield has vertical ripples on passenger side. Makes straight lines look jagged.
- Rear hatch glass is just a total mess, but I know that is kind of just the way it is (even though it shouldn't)
- Passenger front window is distorted enough to make passengers carsick.
- Driver side-view mirror is actually slightly convex and distorts objects. I have never seen a distorted mirror before and was quite surprised by this.
I have an appointment next week to have these glass components swapped out and asked service that I personally inspect them prior to installation. That being said, still might not know for sure until it is installed and the car is in motion.
To make this feel even worse, this Model S was a replacement for a buy-back Model X which, amongst MANY other issues, also had distorted front-passenger glass, which also made my wife and other passengers car sick in the same way. It was bad enough that we did a 6hr road trip through the White Mountains and my wife had to sit in the back because just a short time looking out that front window induces motion sickness. The second time we did this trip we decided to take the Model 3 purely because of the passenger window.
If they can't provide OEM glass that isn't defective, the two options are:
- Find a third-party glass supplier and hope for the best
- Buy-back (...again...)
My 3rd party glass guy is amazing, but he told me that, unlike most other manufacturers, Tesla has locked up their glass so installers have to get it from Tesla only, and it sucks. He doesn’t want anything to do with Tesla’s as a result.
The problem is if you go through the nightmare to finally get a good windshield, you could get a rock that cracks it, and you’re pulled right back into the nightmare.
MobileMikeV
Member
This is all disturbing news. Tesla should be inspecting the quality of the glass they receive, and reject the glass and penalize the company that makes it for them if it doesn't meet minimum quality. I don't remember the pre 2021+ S having a big problem with bad glass. There, really, is no excuse. If it happens, it should be remedied quickly.
