Is there really a difference? 2015 vs 2013

[JenniferQ]

Do you keep your hands on the wheel as the warning says when you turn it on? I ask because if you do, I would like to ask how autopilot makes your trips better? I am disappointed in autopilot - like the OP I had a 2013 and bought a 2015 (mfg in May 2015) for the autopilot function. I get use out of it only on extremely good, well-marked highways. Unfortunately most roads don't fit that description. How does it make driving more enjoyable if you keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention to the road the same as if you were driving? To me it just adds stress when you know the car is going to dive for an exit or get off-track and head straight for the concrete barrier between the exit and the highway so you either pull it back or die. I'm hoping for V7.1 to be an order of magnitude better than the V7.0 we have now.

To answer the OP's question, yes I see a difference in the cabin noise - seems better in my 2015. Other than that, no difference. I'm on the fence about whether I should have kept the 2013 - if autopilot doesn't improve it will have been a grievous error.

I keep a light feel on it usually with my right thumb. Because I have TACC and AP engaged at the same time, I usually have my feet up some and my knees slightly bent. This way I have my arm resting on the armrest and a light feel on the steering wheel. I enjoy the torque I get from the wheel when AP is engaged and now that I very familiar with its abilities and shortcomings, I am able to anticipate when to make sure I have better control. For example, on curves, as it says in the notes, it always wants a supportive hand on the wheel. On very long straightaways with good markings or cars on either side in lots of traffic, I can definitely relax much more and keep hands off. I've actually become very used to keeping just a light feel on the wheel with one hand, though, and it's become very comfortable. On my latest trip, just light pressure kept AP from diving right and sometimes I didn't feel any movement at all to the right. However, on HOV lanes when one lane becomes two, AP would still pull left. I have no idea if the latest software update 2.7.77 helped with this or if I've just "updated my software" to better handle the "right-lane-disappearing" diving act. I am optimistic that it will get better soon. But, I feel as if I have so much more data and that the car is truly helping me stay in the lanes with little to no effort required on my part. It's hard to explain clearly. Sorry.

And this may help us sooner than later, too.

George Hotz Is Taking on Tesla by Himself

 

[donv]

I much prefer my current 85D to my 2013 S85. The new car feels more solid, and has the two features I really wanted, all wheel drive and autopilot. And, the next generation seats are a huge improvement over the 2013 seats. Oh yes, and parking sensors!

I don't keep my hands on the wheel when using autopilot (unless they're cold and I want to warm them using the heated steering wheel, another feature my 2013 car lacked). However, hands on or off the wheel really makes no difference-- it's where your eyes are looking and how aware you are of what's going on that would make a difference if you have to take over. Moving your hands on to the wheel takes no time at all, unless you had them behind your head or something... and even then.

 

[Skotty]

I appreciate the content of this thread. Thanks everyone. Next year I'll most likely be trying to decide between a CPO and a low end new buy or lease, and this gives me more information to consider in making a decision.

 

[thecloud]

And this may help us sooner than later, too.

George Hotz Is Taking on Tesla by Himself

Thanks for posting that link! I notice the author is Ashlee Vance, who has written something or other about Elon as well.

People tend to use the term Autopilot or 'AP' when they're really talking about Autosteer. I think TACC by itself, without Autosteer, is worth the price of admission for the Autopilot package. TACC is the part that makes driving more enjoyable and stress-free, because your Model S is always closely watching traffic around you, and particularly the car in front of you. If traffic ahead of you slows, your car will match its pace.

 

[JenniferQ]

Thanks for posting that link! I notice the author is Ashlee Vance, who has written something or other about Elon as well.

People tend to use the term Autopilot or 'AP' when they're really talking about Autosteer. I think TACC by itself, without Autosteer, is worth the price of admission for the Autopilot package. TACC is the part that makes driving more enjoyable and stress-free, because your Model S is always closely watching traffic around you, and particularly the car in front of you. If traffic ahead of you slows, your car will match its pace.

Agree, but I've had that with my last two MBZs. The autosteer adds a whole new component that wasn't there. And I don't think TACC watches traffic to the sides. I think that's AP. But I can always stand to be corrected.

 

[RockinWithKids]

Yes, definitely a difference for me (albeit sig 2012 to 2015): Model S #2 | Fearless Bit

Thanks for the write up. For a bit there I wondered if this was your car (saw your article after seeing the CPO car).

85 kWh Signature Performance Model S S00428 | Tesla Motors

 

[SPXMike]

Bad news: my CPO 2013 P85+ with 36K miles caught the 12v flue (cycling through three warnings, won't come out of Park). I've owned it for 2 1/2 months, the last month of which was spent in the body shop after hitting a coyote on I-5 ($10k damage). Just got the car back Friday then the 12v issue came up in my driveway yesterday.

Good news: the "loaner" they sent me was a P90D, complete with "ludicrous". 3400 miles on the car. How nice. The reduction in road noise, creaks, etc. is definitely noticeable. I also noted the repositioning of the turn signal stalk. I've let a couple folks drive my 2013 and noted how they tried to signal lane changes with the cruise control. From reading the other posts it seems like there are changes to the car that reduced the road noise and creaks (both my 2013 and the loaner have staggered 21"s). Maybe it's not just a product of miles. Time will tell.

 

[cab]

So, since these "incremental" build quality improvements aren't tied to model years, I guess the best a used car buyer can do is simply shoot for the highest VIN number possible and factor that in along with things like options. As an example, if comparing two cars at the same price point and one has the upgraded sound system and pano but is an earlier VIN (by say 5K cars), it may be worth it to forgo the options in favorof a later Vin. Obviously, people compare options and model years all the time when buying cars, but normally they would never get so granular as to compare VINs - in this case, it may be warranted.

 

[donv]

I would agree with this. A higher VIN should be more desirable than a lower VIN, all other things being equal (something like a Founders or a really early Sig might be an exception).

So, since these "incremental" build quality improvements aren't tied to model years, I guess the best a used car buyer can do is simply shoot for the highest VIN number possible and factor that in along with things like options. As an example, if comparing two cars at the same price point and one has the upgraded sound system and pano but is an earlier VIN (by say 5K cars), it may be worth it to forgo the options in favorof a later Vin. Obviously, people compare options and model years all the time when buying cars, but normally they would never get so granular as to compare VINs - in this case, it may be warranted.

 

[Electricfan]

I keep a light feel on it usually with my right thumb. Because I have TACC and AP engaged at the same time, I usually have my feet up some and my knees slightly bent. This way I have my arm resting on the armrest and a light feel on the steering wheel. I enjoy the torque I get from the wheel when AP is engaged and now that I very familiar with its abilities and shortcomings, I am able to anticipate when to make sure I have better control. For example, on curves, as it says in the notes, it always wants a supportive hand on the wheel. On very long straightaways with good markings or cars on either side in lots of traffic, I can definitely relax much more and keep hands off. I've actually become very used to keeping just a light feel on the wheel with one hand, though, and it's become very comfortable. On my latest trip, just light pressure kept AP from diving right and sometimes I didn't feel any movement at all to the right. However, on HOV lanes when one lane becomes two, AP would still pull left. I have no idea if the latest software update 2.7.77 helped with this or if I've just "updated my software" to better handle the "right-lane-disappearing" diving act. I am optimistic that it will get better soon. But, I feel as if I have so much more data and that the car is truly helping me stay in the lanes with little to no effort required on my part. It's hard to explain clearly. Sorry.

And this may help us sooner than later, too.

George Hotz Is Taking on Tesla by Himself

Thanks! Sounds like you are always watching the road, ready to take over as Tesla recommends.

To me, Tesla autopilot is like letting your 16 year old drive when he/she gets a learner's permit. Not very relaxing, because the new driver may lose control at any time. In fact its somewhat less relaxing than driving yourself.

 

[mknox]

It takes about 10% of the energy that was previously exerted.

My early 2013 S85 frunk closes quite effortlessly. I usually do it with the fingers of one hand (horrors!) right in the middle and it just clicks shut. No undue effort and not a hint of the dreaded hood crease either. I think that there was quite a spread on the amount of effort required early on and perhaps Tesla has got the manufacturing tolerance down better now.

Honestly, the only difference (aside from new features) that I notice on new loaners is that they are a lot quieter on the highway. I do get a lot of road/tire noise in the cabin with my car... more than I think a car in this price category should have. But otherwise it is rock solid at 65,000 miles. Not a squeak, rattle or hint of wind noise. I really can't discern any difference in fit/finish nor improvement in cabin materials. The road noise difference is noticeable, however.

 

[Rockster]

I had a 2013 and now have a 2015 and echo what many are saying regarding overall build quality, fit, and finish. My car has been in the shop for nearly a month having some rear end damage repaired. This thread makes me feel melancholy, like I haven't driven my Model S in forever.

 

[ArtInCT]

The first two Tesla S's that I test drove were a P60 and then a P85+.. this was back in 2014 summer. When the P95D came out I test drove the first one in NY state. I can tell you that the fit and finish from the two 2014 cars was improved and the P85D just felt tighter, more solid and unless under high acceleration.. less road noise was heard. So I agree, without much real experience, the newer cars are a bit more refined. The latest drives have been in a 70D, 90D and P90DL. Great machines..... and getting better.

 

[StaceyS]

Well, I must be lucky then. I think we've got the worlds best 2013 P85. Ours is P064xx, Feb 2013 build. I've been in a friend's 2015 85D and ours was quieter (mainly due to no front motor). I've had a 2014 85 loaner that I drove over 400 miles, and our car was quieter and seemed tighter. I do like the newer steering wheel column stalks and their positions better, but the Mercedes originals our car has work just fine, and we're used to where they are.

Our car was a CPO purchase, and before we got it, it was sent back to Fremont. Part of that was logistics (it was in Cleveland when we bought it, and I think it was easiest for them to send it through Fremont and up to Portland, rather than straight from Cleveland to Portland), but they also told me they were going to have Fremont do a "full service" on it before turning it over. Our drive unit is the quietest drive unit I have ever experienced. I am not exaggerating, it is simply inaudible except for some throttle positions at 25 mph you can hear a very faint electric whine, and only when the radio is off. I'm suspecting it may have had a new drive unit installed.

We've had no rattles at all, and the one time the car was in for warranty service, Tesla actually replaced a bunch of interior trim panels with improved panels specifically to stop or prevent rattles (A pillar, B pillar, sunroof cross beam cover). The frunk is easy to close too. We've had no door handle issues, or fit and fitment issues. The one item I did myself was adjust the rear hatch bumper stops to prevent the rear hatch from doing the wind flutter thing.

Its very possible our car had a fair amount of stuff replaced in Fremont before it was delivered to us. The car had 17k miles on it when we got it in late June, its got 25k now.

 

[Muzzman1]

Is it just me or does my 85D have a better turning radius for U-turns etc, than my S85 did?

 

[CHG-ON]

I have a 9/14 and I find the quality to be much better compared to early VINs that I have gotten for loaners: quieter, better ride, no rattles or squeaks whatsoever, better fit and finish in and out.

 

[mknox]

Well, I must be lucky then. I think we've got the worlds best 2013 P85. Ours is P064xx, Feb 2013 build...

...We've had no rattles at all, and the one time the car was in for warranty service, Tesla actually replaced a bunch of interior trim panels with improved panels specifically to stop or prevent rattles (A pillar, B pillar, sunroof cross beam cover). The frunk is easy to close too. We've had no door handle issues, or fit and fitment issues.

Mine is also a Feb 2013 build (P060XX) and similar. Other than the road noise, very solid, squeak and rattle free and fit and finish comparable to any newer car I've been in. But you make a point about the upgrades. Mine has also had a number of things done early on such as all new Gen 2 door handles, revised interior door seals and other adjustments. I never did have the pano roof noises, seat belt rattles and such.

 

[luvnMyTS]

Maybe it was just mine then, but my 2013 was amazing. As the photo shows, I had both cars side by side. Fit and finish was very good on both. I did have a couple of notable wind noises in the 2013, but took it in and Tesla fixed both of them. I was always very impressed at how quiet that car was on the highway and that I didn't have to raise my voice to have a conversation. The only difference to me, in the 2015 is I now hear the whine of the front motor that previously didn't exist in the 2013. Not complaining about it, I kind of like the "turbo" type sound.

As far as the "tightness" people are talking about, I think a lot of that is simply attributed to a dual motor car. The steering is tighter yes, but that's more as a result of a reworked front end now that the steering wheel has to turn a lot more than the RWD models do. Don't think it has anything to do with quality, just different mechanics.

I too had no squeaks or rattles in my 2013. I absolutely loved my 2013. I wanted the performance model and the next gen seats, but those alone weren't enough for me to spend over $60,000 to upgrade. The auto pilot is what tipped the scale for me. I will not be a happy camper if the rumors are true and they add the restrictions to it that have been discussed. That will make it useless to me and make the whole point of upgrading moot. The performance is cool, but in everyday driving, don't even notice it's there. It's a cool novelty that quickly wears off. Basically it's a $33,000 option to be able to show off to your friends and family on occasion. Beyond that, there's no practical reason you need to do 0-60 in 2.9 versus 4.0 in the standard S85D. 4.0 is still quicker than most cars on the road. And despite what Tesla says about having improved higher speed acceleration, I can barely tell the difference above 50 MPH from my 2013 or even in the 2015 when comparing Sport vs Ludicrous mode.

If auto-pilot could have been added to my 2013, I would have surely gone that route and been a very happy camper. Tesla appears to finally be willing to upgrade older cars to the next gen seats for around $6,500 and they offer a 4G LTE upgrade for $500. So really, the only difference to me, is the performance, which I could of course "live" without and autopilot.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[EKnight47]

I love my 2013 as well. I'll be sad to see it go. My son is actually taking it pretty hard (he's 8). It's like he thinks he's losing a family pet! I guess that's what happens when you name your car

 

[napabill]

Yes, definitely a difference for me (albeit sig 2012 to 2015): Model S #2 | Fearless Bit

I think you have shoved me over the top, and am going to upgrade my 2012 MS85 to the new MS90. I'm curious why you didn't stay with the Carbon Fiber interior? I had pretty much decided to upgrade from Obeche Matte to that.