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Isn't the new Model 3 LR competing with slightly used Model S 60

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by coupedncal, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. coupedncal

    coupedncal Member

    May 25, 2015
    While establishing a business case to justify the higher cost of the Model 3 LR, I looked at pricing for a slightly used Model S and it seems the prices are running about the same. How are others on the forum working through this conundrum? Obviously the Model S at that price point is couple of years old and likely does not have AP gear but other than that, the cars are pretty even. Even the range is not too far apart.

  2. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

    Aug 13, 2017
    SF Bay
    #2 run-the-joules, Sep 8, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
    Even if I could get a brand new s75 (or 100D for that matter) for the price of a model 3 LR, I'd be buying the 3, because it's the car I prefer. If I wanted the S I'd have bought one.

    This is no different than BMW 3 vs BMW 5, Audi A3 vs A4, etc. the higher spec of the lower model starts to overlap with used (or even new) lower trims of the next model up.

    As for your specific question I wouldn't buy a Tesla without autopilot, it's the reason I'm buying a Tesla in the first place.
  3. silentsnow31802

    Feb 26, 2016
    Napa, Ca
    In my case I needed the extra range and I like the idea of a smaller car. Also I like the idea of the car being brand new and not used. Having the latest hardware is also a plus.
  4. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

    Apr 6, 2016
    Southern California
    1. To be range comparable you'd have to go with a 100D
    2. Used = no federal tax credit
    3. No AP
    4. Too wide for me
    5. Used
    That about covers it for me
    • Like x 8
  5. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

    Oct 26, 2012
    Santa Cruz, CA
    If the range of the 60 is fine for you why would you be considering the LR Model 3? A used 60 can only be compared against a SR Model 3. If you need the range of a LR Model 3 you need to pare it against an 85 at a minimum, but more like a 90 or a 100.
    • Like x 2
  6. gambit48

    gambit48 Member

    Aug 1, 2017
    Range is an issue for me. So no, the M3 LR does not compare in the slightest to the S60. It's more like the 100 (not even the 90), which even at used prices, is probably about double the cost without the tax credit. The M3 will come with a tax credit so the difference is even worse. I can't remotely make a business case for a S.

    I could live with a 90, but it's range doesn't seem to match the M3 LR so I don't feel it's an adequate comparison. Personally, I'm ok with the size as it's storage room is WAYYYY more and it would be a more useful car overall. But I'm ok without the storage space.
  7. T34ME

    T34ME Active Member

    Mar 31, 2016
    Inland Empire
    No conundrum for me, for all the reasons above plus
    - imo better looking
    - newer technology
    - luv the new dash
  8. az erik

    az erik Member

    May 29, 2016
    Exactly why I'll wait my few months to get mine.

    That said, a private sale 85,75,60 doesn't have tax. There is 3 p85's local to me for under $55, which is what my 3 will be before $5k in tax, $1500 docs delivered etc. But they are OLD. AP2 is a must for me ( also the 'selling' point I gave my wife lol) and a MS will just fit my garage, if I park it, it'll be in my bathroom if my wife does.
  9. Zaphod

    Zaphod Galaxy President (former)

    Dec 10, 2015
    Austin, TX
    Not sure what your definition of too far apart is. 3 long range is 310 miles. 60 is 210 miles. 100 miles is pretty damn far apart to me. More comparable would be the 3 short range.
    • Like x 1
  10. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2016
    To answer the OP's question: No, they aren't competing at all. Unless you are impatient, need to seat 7, or you absolutely have to have the self presenting door handles, there's no reason (in my opinion) to consider a used Model S 60 as being better than a brand new, super sexy, Model 3 LR.
  11. oktane

    oktane Active Member

    Oct 25, 2016
    Model 3 = Model S 2.0
  12. MichaelSNU

    MichaelSNU New Member

    Nov 6, 2016
    I am waiting for the M3 for reasons #3 and #4 and maybe #5. Perhaps I have not done enough research on the issue, but what if you buy a used MS 60 that has more battery degeneration than anticipated?

    From a practical prospective, with 500K+ M3 preorders is there enough used MS supply to satisfy a situation where 10% of people who preorder defect?

    Notwithstanding the above, I still toy with the idea of defecting and purchasing a used MS.
    • Like x 1
  13. david_42

    david_42 Member

    Oct 30, 2006
    South of Portland, OR
    I agree. I could have purchased a Model S years ago, but neither my wife nor I want that large of a car.
    • Like x 1
  14. FlyingKiwi

    FlyingKiwi Member

    Aug 6, 2017
    Auckland, NZ
    Prefer the looks (interior and Exterior) of the S, but the car is just too much, both $$$ and Size.
    If there was a ~7/8th scale model S with the model 3 drivetrain/range/pricing it'd be a no brainer to buy that instead.
  15. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

    Apr 25, 2015
    The Western Slope, Colorado
    #15 dgpcolorado, Sep 17, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
    I'm driving an S60 and trying to decide between another CPO S with a larger battery or a Model 3. My take on the OP's question and your list is somewhat different than that of many here:

    1. I agree that comparing an S60 to a 3LR doesn't make sense. However, in my experience actual range isn't as much of an issue as Supercharging speed. My S60 takes twice as long to Supercharge as a larger battery Tesla and that makes road trips — the majority of my miles — significantly longer. A 2014 or newer S85 would Supercharge plenty fast enough for me and have adequate range, even if the total range wasn't as great as the 3LR.

    2. I don't qualify for the federal tax credit — too low income — so it doesn't matter at all. However, a new 3 LR would qualify me for the $5000 Colorado state tax credit, so that's a consideration. So far as "used" goes, my hope is that CPO Model S prices will come down significantly over the next year due to the Model 3 release; that could make the choice more interesting.

    3. I have zero interest in AP, save that I would like TACC. Will I pay $5000 for it? No way, not a chance. AP wouldn't be useful at all where I live and after many thousands of road trip miles I don't find myself wishing I had AP for that, again, save for TACC. I enjoy driving the Tesla myself — it is fun.

    4. I found, to my surprise, that I really appreciate, and use, the size of the Model S. Also, I went from two cars in a two car garage to just one car, so the width isn't a problem. The Model 3 seems as if it will be too small to have useful cargo space and I greatly prefer the liftback of the S. It is very unlikely that I could fit my large mountain bike in the 3 without major disassembly and putting it in the S is trivial.

    5. Used versus new is a concern although the warranty for a CPO S is actually better than the warranty for a new Model 3, which is something to consider (8 years drive train on the S versus just 8 years battery for the 3; the 4 year 50,000 mile overall warranty is the same for CPO versus new). One subtle advantage of a used S for me is that I don't worry as much about the first scratch or rock chip — it is a used car, after all. I think that I would be more concerned about the inevitable damage from use if I had a new Model 3. Perhaps that's just me and not an issue for most others here.

    Some other differences between the S and the 3:

    6. The S has full instrumentation and the 3 does not (to put it mildly). I really like the Instrument Cluster on the S and use it a lot. Especially the power meter; the power meter on the 3 is pathetic.

    7. The touch screen on the S is bigger and the vertical orientation is more useful for displaying the information that I need, especially on road trips (nav on top, energy plot below). That information figures to be awkward to view on the smaller horizontal oriented 3 display. The steering wheel buttons also look to be easier to use on the S, especially with gloves on in winter.

    8. Liftback on S versus trunk on 3. I mentioned earlier that I greatly prefer the liftback and I am loathe to give it up.

    9. Actual roof on S (except for the newer ones, which are not affordable as CPOs anyway) versus glass roof on the 3 or a narrow strip of roof over just the front seats, which I think may look odd (no pictures exist yet, so far as I am aware). I have trouble with glare and a glass roof would mean having to wear a hat during daytime driving. Also, the glass roof figures to be much hotter in the summer and colder in winter. User reports from those with the glass roof in sunny places seem to be mixed but just the dark color figures to soak up a lot of heat. In winter, my experience is that windows lose heat quickly compared to the roof of my S; I can feel the difference.

    As always, YMMV. Even with all the above, a new 3 is tempting. However, I don't have to decide for another year or more since I still have about 17k miles on my S60 warranty and I can't use the federal tax credit anyway!
    • Informative x 1
  16. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

    Sep 5, 2009
    Seattle, WA
    They are not.

    Lets first look at std range. LR is similar. This is particularly for WA where EVs gets sales tax exemption upto $32k.

    3 : $35k - $7.5k + $250 = $27.75k

    S (used) : $50k + 5k = $55k.

    Used S is double that of 3.
  17. Esme Es Mejor

    Esme Es Mejor Member

    Dec 18, 2016
    Bay Area
    If you're planning to live in your car & be a vagabond, a used S is a much better option. Way more room & free supercharging. A total no-brainer.
    • Informative x 1
    • Funny x 1
  18. Bebop

    Bebop Member

    Jun 25, 2017
    Absolutely right on. At this day and age (Sept 2017) it is pointless to be buying a car without Autopilot/FSD capabilities.

    So those pre-AP cars I think will lose more value and will be much harder to sell.
  19. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

    Apr 25, 2011
    Ithaca, NY, USA
    Let me just point out that there aren't that many used S 60s in existence. Sure, some people will buy them, and the Model 3 will still sell a million cars a year.
  20. heysteveh

    heysteveh Member

    Apr 3, 2016
    Peoria, AZ
    #20 heysteveh, Sep 17, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
    I would possibly agree with you IF FSD was currently available and functioning in the real world. For me, I think the opposite of your statement is true: I think it's pointless to be buying a car and paying for FSD until it's functioning and proven reliable. Even if I have to pay $1,000 more after the fact (after delivery), I would still rather wait and make my decision once it is a real functioning product.

    As for Autopilot, it depends on where you live and drive.
    • Like x 2

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