July 2023 and AP1 is still a better driving experience on Interstates than FSDb

[snorp]

I’ve been road tripping my FSDb MX for the past 9 months or so and it’s aggravating at times but I felt it did as well as AP1. Just road tripped with my AP1 MX and wow is it better than FSDb.

No phantom braking
Selectable and relatively consistent following distance
Doesn’t change lanes for no reason
Lane changes happen quickly when initiated with stalk
Nags seem less but can’t verify

The only drawback is the air suspension rides like an ox cart compared to Raven.

Even charging seems faster than it used to be. I was pulling 179 kW long enough to get my phone and snap a pic. Curious what others think.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I agree 100% and voted as such. I said years ago that I felt AP1 was a better user experience than AP2 and assumed it would be only a matter of time before the newer versions of AP took the lead spot. I'm surprised and also simultaneously saddened that AP2 and newer hasn't overtaken AP1 in terms of total user experience and satisfaction. I've owned multiple versions of both and AP1 still brings the best user experience to the table. It's not capable of as much as AP2 and newer but what it does do is far more stable, reliable and predictable. It. Just. Works.

Just think of where we'd be if Tesla didn't sever those ties w/MobileEye and bring that software engineering in-house for AP2 and forward. Early days of AP2 was a blatant embarrassment by comparison. It's improved slightly but not enough for how long it's been and how many people use AP/EAP/FSD at a pretty healthy price tag compared to what it cost for highway AP back in the good ol' days.

 

[bmah]

AP1 > HW3/FSD

I'm in the unexpected position of having AP1 (Model S 85) and HW3 (Model X) cars right now, and I can drive them both back to back. Absolutely AP1 delivers a better experience. The AP1 feature set is limited compared to FSD, but what it does, it does significantly better, at least from this user's perspective.

I agree with @Ostrichsak, it's a darn shame that Tesla dumped MobilEye. It feels that years later the quality of the driver assist still has not recovered from that split. Sorry Tesla engineers, that's what I see.

Bruce.

 

[Ostrichsak]

AP1 > HW3/FSD

I'm in the unexpected position of having AP1 (Model S 85) and HW3 (Model X) cars right now, and I can drive them both back to back. Absolutely AP1 delivers a better experience. The AP1 feature set is limited compared to FSD, but what it does, it does significantly better, at least from this user's perspective.

I agree with @Ostrichsak, it's a darn shame that Tesla dumped MobilEye. It feels that years later the quality of the driver assist still has not recovered from that split. Sorry Tesla engineers, that's what I see.

Bruce.

My current stable consists of the following configurations:

1) MCU1 on AP1 w/Highway Autopilot aka Convenience Features enabled. This was the highest software option possible during this era. $5k option.

2) MCU1 on AP2 w/Enhanced Autopilot. $3k option. IMHO this is the best value of the currently available Autopilot software versions.

3) MCU3(?) in AP2.5/3(?) Not really sure the hardware versions on this one but it's a new 2023 w/ base included Autopilot software features. We don't really miss the features EAP grants and FSD is still largely paying (lots) for future promises.

I've owned varying versions of everything in between over the years (8 total Tesla's now) and option #1 above is far and away the best user experience of that group. I have no doubts that if I upgraded the MCU to MCU2 it would be just as good (read: no affect) as Autopilot tasks.

It doesn't offer the marketable features allegedly included with the newer versions but those are mostly half-baked at best. The fundamental functionality of Autopilot is the important element (even though Tesla seems to have lost sight of that basic fact) and the newer versions are woefully behind in every important metric and even borderline dangerous in numerous & easily repeatable situations.

Years later with little to no improvements on these dangerous issues and only promises of new and probably equally as half-baked features are provided.

Tesla needs to get back to it's roots by investing resources back into fixing features it's already introduced that don't function properly and largely never have since release.

 

[danp]

So I just bought a 22 MSLR with FSD because it was a killer deal, and in the process of selling my 2015 P85D+ with everything including full AP1. There's already a long list of things I'm going to miss deeply like real leather, the massive pano sunroof that opens, stalks, the super tight suspension that makes the car lighter, and now I guess AP1 after reading this thread. It's to the point of making me question the "upgrade".

 

[bmah]

So I just bought a 22 MSLR with FSD because it was a killer deal, and in the process of selling my 2015 P85D+ with everything including full AP1. There's already a long list of things I'm going to miss deeply like real leather, the massive pano sunroof that opens, stalks, the super tight suspension that makes the car lighter, and now I guess AP1 after reading this thread. It's to the point of making me question the "upgrade".

I hear ya. This is why it's hard for me to part with my S85D. (It's a little hard to relate the significance of this, but before last year, I had never before owned more than one car at a time.)

But with either the Palladium S or X, we get a substantially longer range, faster charging speeds, and better fitting (IMHO) seats. Does that outweigh the things we gave up with the older cars, like AP1? That's going to come down to individual preference, mission needs, etc. I suspect everyone would have a different answer.

Bruce.

PS. Don't mean to gloat but I kinda have to. AP1 on my S85D was basically free. It was included as a part of the Tech Package on late 2014 and early 2015 builds, before Tesla rearranged the options and broke "Autopilot Convenience Features" out separately. Almost everybody configured the Tech Package on their cars in those days, to the point where cars that didn't were marked specially as exceptions on the assembly line.

 

[ngng]

Our family has an X, Y, 3 with three flavors of AP and I prefer AP1 for highway driving

 

[Richbot]

I wouldn't buy a car equipped with FSD, even if it was $10,000 cheaper, after trying it on several cars, from old legacy X's to 3/Y and S, and brand new X. It's been bizarre and unpredictable anytime autosteer is engaged in all of the vehicles I've tried it in, often doesn't act the same way at the same place, etc.

My car has AP3 or whatever so it techinically could eventually become as bad as the FSD-equipped cars I've driven, but so far so good, it's pretty consistent and I'm pretty happy with it and it's improved over time so far with the car, with the notable exception of some updates at the beginning of 2021 that re-introduced a bunch of bizarre behavior, which were fixed later that year with another update

I too have appreciated the early AP cars I've driven. It's just autosteer and autobraking with traffic aware cruise, like literally every other manufacturer has, and it works great

 

[mtndrew1]

AP1 auto parks better, too.

Parking test

 

[Spalding]

AP1 auto parks better, too.

Parking test

Meaning that it capable of self-parking at all, unlike current FSD..

 

[scottf200]

Just finished a 5300 road trip this week and FSDbeta on the highway screws up a LOT. Multiple times it tried to jump into a turning lane that was parallel with the two lanes AT highway speed. The map and display showed it was supposed to go straight. It would NOT have had time to brake at that highway speed and I had to jerk it back into the lane.

When taking a normal exit is abruptly enters the turning lane and goes too far then overcorrects back resulting in a very jerky exit.

It also very oddly slows down in the exiting lane on the off ramp ... going way too slow and stopping way too far back from the stop sign. Very far from human-like.

There are other examples of odd behavior like ping-ponging just enough to be annoying ... it depended a little on the road surface or if there was any side winds BUT the normal AP before FSDb was rock solid and smooth in all these scenarios.

 

[snorp]

FSDbeta on the highway screws up a LOT

That’s my experience also. It’s not that AP1 is better from a capability standpoint, it’s that it’s better from a predictability standpoint. AP1 has solid lane centering, following distance, and acceleration/deceleration algos. You know what it’s going to do and it’s a near seamless integration with normal driving behaviors.

FSDb is a crapshoot and is anything but seamless. Fighting unnecessary lane changes is my number one complaint. Number two is following distance variability.

FSDb is impressive on city streets, especially when I’m in a new location and am not sure which turn to take. It’s just not a relaxing experience on the interstate.

 

[scottf200]

Fighting unnecessary lane changes is my number one complaint.
Number two is following distance variability.

I had to turn on Minimum Lane change option at each drive as it seemed to help quite a bit.

Following distance seems to have a lot of elasticity where it slowly adjusts to the setting optimal 'definition'. I almost always use Chill unless I'm in bumper-to-bumper at slow speeds.

 

[BigNick]

My former P85D was great with AP1. Sure AP1 features were limited, but it did its job nearly perfectly.

I haven't used FSDb on my M3P yet. Just can't pull the trigger for $199/mo to do it. Not worth the money when I drive less than 2500 miles a year now.

So I didn't vote in the poll due to lack of FSDb experience.

 

[snorp]

I had to turn on Minimum Lane change option at each drive as it seemed to help quite a bit.

I do this also, but then sometimes it doesn't move to the passing lane when approaching slower vehicles in the right lane. It will slow down to their speed, and then maybe move over at some point, but not always. It's not hard to initiate a lane change so no big deal if it was consistent. But it's not.

What really drives me nuts is when it wants to change lanes to "follow the route" or whatever the feedback is. It's like the routing algos use shortest path searching down to a specific lane, which is crazy. I sometimes fight it over and over and there is no way to prevent it from trying to change lanes in this scenario. Sometimes it changes lanes even after I turn off the blinker. It's maddening in some spots. Minimum lane change has zero impact on the "follow route" decisions as far as I can tell.

 

[mtndrew1]

I do this also, but then sometimes it doesn't move to the passing lane when approaching slower vehicles in the right lane. It will slow down to their speed, and then maybe move over at some point, but not always. It's not hard to initiate a lane change so no big deal if it was consistent. But it's not.

What really drives me nuts is when it wants to change lanes to "follow the route" or whatever the feedback is. It's like the routing algos use shortest path searching down to a specific lane, which is crazy. I sometimes fight it over and over and there is no way to prevent it from trying to change lanes in this scenario. Sometimes it changes lanes even after I turn off the blinker. It's maddening in some spots. Minimum lane change has zero impact on the "follow route" decisions as far as I can tell.

Whenever they use the FSD stack for regular autopilot and NoA I’ll just use that. FSDb on the freeway in its current configuration is just insufferable.

 

[bmah]

I find it kind of interesting that in the poll, FSD is "winning", but the written comments in the thread lean fairly strongly towards AP1.

Bruce.

 

[danp]

I find it kind of interesting that in the poll, FSD is "winning", but the written comments in the thread lean fairly strongly towards AP1.

Bruce.

Yup...people tend to be more vocal with negative viewpoints.

AP1 is better for highway because it was optimized for that within a local maximum. With FSD, Tesla has mostly focused on city driving because that's a much harder problem to solve, at the expense of fine tuning the highway experience. Hopefully at some point the focus shifts to the latter, and maybe we'll still be alive and driving by then.

 

[snorp]

I find it kind of interesting that in the poll, FSD is "winning", but the written comments in the thread lean fairly strongly towards AP1.

Agree. Would love to hear alternate viewpoints as to why FSD is better than AP1 on the interstate.

Yup...people tend to be more vocal with negative viewpoints.

People could be negative towards AP1 or FSD.

I have really tried to think how anyone could view FSD as being better. Spacing for semis, maybe some people don't care about their speed or lane choices as long as the car is doing everything, or maybe people have a bad memory of AP1 driving and it's been a while since they drove both?

That was certainly the case for me. I do not think I would have thought AP1 was better had I not driven long distances essentially back to back in both vehicles.

 

[DrChaos]

Whenever they use the FSD stack for regular autopilot and NoA I’ll just use that. FSDb on the freeway in its current configuration is just insufferable.

That's not my experience---I have found the recent releases of FSDb on so cal freeways to now be better than standard AP stack. Sometimes it does change lanes too much and so I use the 'minimal lane changes' button which helps calm it down.

Never had an AP1 car though.

Try reformatting your USB drive and recalibrating cameras?