June: no air suspension except 100D. July: air for all! wtf??

[R.S]

It's the third alternative, the #NeverTesla camp, that concerns me most. Is this level of product change pace and short-term logic in any way sustainable with regards to customer satisfaction and retention?

I know it certainly gives me pause in considering a new Tesla. The overall feeling personally is just one of relief I don't have to try to time one right now. That's a very odd feeling to have regards to an informed purchase, I can't think of any other product where I would have that feeling, outside of the stock market. Usually you know and find stuff out, at least make an estimate (when did the last one come out etc.).

With Tesla even if plans may leak, and/or you know the history and timing of changes well, their aggressive change pace (coupled with long delivery times especially internationally) means they may still change many things to better and to worse at a moment's notice. With Tesla you know nothing.

I think they need more communication and a clearer strategy. It has become a dangerous mix of uncertainty and speculation and while fans like us, who follow every step of the company know that it can always happen, I don't know if the more casual buyer would be too happy about it.

And I wouldn't advise anyone who wants to buy a Tesla to go on the forums. After a day, or two, you will be convinced that soon there is going to be a 200kWh battery for $7.40. And that you should just wait for the next generation, which is coming in a couple of weeks anyway.

 

[KarenRei]

To me it's understandable. Tesla faces a dilemma. They're about to start making a $35k vehicle, vastly cheaper than their existing line. They still want to sell Ss. So they have to find a way to distinguish them from the Model 3; if the Model 3 can have all of the features of the S, at half the price, then who would buy an S - twice the cost for just a bit of extra room?

Simultaneously, Tesla is trying to streamline production, and options can make production more expensive. Tesla went through "Options Hell" particularly on the Model X. With air suspension, at first, the thought was have it only on the P100D, where the profit margins are enough to justify it. However, as greater concerns about people stopping buying S's started to spread in the company (exemplified by Musk's heavy anti-selling of the Model 3), the other approach was chosen - just make them all air suspension. Either way, you simplify production, but the latter helps you deal with your "make a distinction between vehicle classes" problem.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

If I've learned anything over the course of my 4 years of ownership and watching Tesla and Musk closely, it's that there is always something better around the corner. That, and if Tesla takes something away it's usually going to come back in a different form shortly thereafter. If there's something you want and Tesla doesn't offer it, then don't buy. If you do, know that it will probably come back online the day after you take delivery. That's just the nature of the beast with Tesla. Since there are no other viable alternatives, that's what we have to deal with right now.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla went through "Options Hell" particularly on the Model X.

I'm just not buying that. Your average German factory-ordered car has a hundreds of different options, totalling in millions of combinations. I know it is less in America where things are bundled for the lot sales, but in reality Tesla has never had many options for any markets. Model X for example started with less options than Model S had in 2014, but both had a very small number compared to the competition.

Calling that options hell is not realistic. It is obviously something Tesla dislikes, but in reality Tesla has had less options than a basic Toyota.

 

[u00mem9]

This. What this reveals (especially when combined with the new premium bundle of nothing for $5k) is that it's amateur hour in the configuration office.

 

[R.S]

I'm just not buying that. Your average German factory-ordered car has a hundreds of different options, totalling in millions of combinations. I know it is less in America where things are bundled for the lot sales, but in reality Tesla has never had many options for any markets. Model X for example started with less options than Model S had in 2014, but both had a very small number compared to the competition.

Calling that options hell is not realistic. It is obviously something Tesla dislikes, but in reality Tesla has had less options than a basic Toyota.

The real hell was the FW doors. They delayed the whole car and were the main cause for quality problems. And as far as I know the FW doors aren't an option.

 

[jeffro01]

Do you think Tesla just makes it up as they go along? The flip flopping with supercharging and now options is getting weird. Taking away air seemed like it must have some logic - until 4 weeks later they flip and take away coil springs. Starting to wonder if they even have an actual marketing department or if it's some bros playing beer pong at 2 am coming up with this stuff.

In short. Yes. It's been that way since I can remember...

Jeff

 

[Max*]

June: No threads from calisnow on air suspension
July: Two threads from calisnow on air suspension

 

[calisnow]

June: No threads from calisnow on air suspension
July: Two threads from calisnow on air suspension

Didn't want you to feel neglected Max.

 

[SucreTease]

Do you think Tesla just makes it up as they go along?

Is there inherently something wrong with "making it up as they go along"? It could just as well be called "responsive". It could very well be that Tesla tried out one approach, heard a lot of pushback from customers (i.e. complaints on forums such as this) and changed their approach. Isn't that supposed to be a good thing? Have you always gotten everything right on the first pass, or did you try out different approaches and evolve toward something better?

Your criticism is not unlike that directed at politicians: If they don't change their mind, it's being "tone deaf", "inflexible", or "unresponsive to their electorate"; if they do change their mind, it's "flip-flopping".

 

[KarenRei]

From the horse's mouth:

Musk cites Model X design thinking “mistake” informing Model Y plan

The Model X was like a “Faberge Egg,” Musk said at the meeting, in that it’s a very complex creation with far too many configuration options. He noted that the company got “too excited” about the vehicle, and should’ve versioned more of the options out instead of front-loading them all at launch. That informed the much more modest configuration options that will launch with the Model 3 initially.

 

[calisnow]

It's the third alternative, the #NeverTesla camp, that concerns me most. Is this level of product change pace and short-term logic in any way sustainable with regards to customer satisfaction and retention?

I know it certainly gives me pause in considering a new Tesla. The overall feeling personally is just one of relief I don't have to try to time one right now. That's a very odd feeling to have regards to an informed purchase, I can't think of any other product where I would have that feeling, outside of the stock market. Usually you know and find stuff out, at least make an estimate (when did the last one come out etc.).

With Tesla even if plans may leak, and/or you know the history and timing of changes well, their aggressive change pace (coupled with long delivery times especially internationally) means they may still change many things to better and to worse at a moment's notice. With Tesla you know nothing.

Again I think you're making the geeky mistake that most customers are like the forum wack jobs. Nobody gives a hoot about Tesla's changing options dude except us. I wouldn't even admit to friends that I follow this stuff so closely. And of course I'll still buy a Tesla - I'm not less satisfied with my car because of Tesla's nutty optionnchsmging behavior. It's entirely irrelevant.

 

[calisnow]

Is there inherently something wrong with "making it up as they go along"? It could just as well be called "responsive". It could very well be that Tesla tried out one approach, heard a lot of pushback from customers (i.e. complaints on forums such as this) and changed their approach. Isn't that supposed to be a good thing? Have you always gotten everything right on the first pass, or did you try out different approaches and evolve toward something better?

Your criticism is not unlike that directed at politicians: If they don't change their mind, it's being "tone deaf", "inflexible", or "unresponsive to their electorate"; if they do change their mind, it's "flip-flopping".

Don't put words in my mouth. There wasn't a criticism it just seemed random to me.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Again I think you're making the geeky mistake that most customers are like the forum wack jobs. Nobody gives a hoot about Tesla's changing options dude except us. I wouldn't even admit to friends that I follow this stuff so closely. And of course I'll still buy a Tesla - I'm not less satisfied with my car because of Tesla's nutty optionnchsmging behavior. It's entirely irrelevant.

I agree the great masses probably won't care about product change minutiae, nor even be aware of it. Now price and value changes they might be more concerned of.

But the thing is, the early adopters and enthusiasts are a microcosm of things to come. We amplify the best and the worst, certainly. We forgive things the masses never would and equally concern ourselves with things masses never would...

Still, the themes that come up in this setting certainly don't go away like that. This is why things like the model year matter, even for the masses. We shall see what the true effects of various concerns regarding Tesla are, of course.

You are mistaken if you think I believe my concerns would somehow 1:1 represent those of the masses. Of course not.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

From the horse's mouth:

Musk cites Model X design thinking “mistake” informing Model Y plan

The Model X was like a “Faberge Egg,” Musk said at the meeting, in that it’s a very complex creation with far too many configuration options. He noted that the company got “too excited” about the vehicle, and should’ve versioned more of the options out instead of front-loading them all at launch. That informed the much more modest configuration options that will launch with the Model 3 initially.

I know he said that. I just don't believe Elon Musk is accurate there, either intentionally or unintentionally. I think he was making rhetoric to support a very limited Model 3 launch line-up.

Model X had a very limited number of options on launch and at every stage of its life. Model S had more options in 2014 than Model X had ever. All German premium cars have more options than Model X or Model S at any stage of its existence.

People need to stop taking Elon Musk literally, it is not healthy for the accuracy of conversation.

 

[shokunin]

So much for "simplifying production" if you're changing packages like every quarter or even more often than that. They know the minute the 3 specs are launched, everybody is going to make a whats different (standard and options) between the "S/X" and "3" comparison chart. I think its someone in marketing moving more checkmarks into the on S/X column and not available on Model 3 column.

 

[JCLwek]

I do think you yourself make the point that it actually kind of is a "nefarious" plot - the whole quarterly demand lever, product change strategy is a "nefarious" plot in the sense that Tesla is making constant changes that benefit Tesla and hinge on the customer taking delivery at a time that benefits Tesla (within quarter) and customer not knowing of changes coming right after (the next quarter). This is well oiled machine by now that maximizes locking customers into their purchases (with whatever relative caveats they have) while lining up the next set of changes to benefit Tesla right after (demand levers, inventory management etc.).

What makes this "nefarious" compared to the rest of the business is the sheer pace and frequency of it. Think if Apple changed iPhone many times each quarter instead of once a year. In addition, what makes it "nefarious" compared to the car industry is that the latter actually has an unlikely open history with future product changes (compared to, say, electronics), where informed customers actually can know about most product changes and/or their timing in advance. Finally, what makes it an extra tough pill as a customer is the cost and long delivery time that mean planning for these changes and fixing them afterwards from a customer perspective is all but impossible...



I don't think anything in recent times supports the notion that Tesla is trying to be fair with their product change strategy. Coming back with the free Supercharging demand lever alone proves that they are not trying to be fair. I do agree they are trying to make a profit.

Totally agree. I started noticing this quarterly demand lever with their end to free supercharging at the end of 2016 announcement. Did anyone really think Tesla was going to announce the new paid supercharging program on New Years Day 2017? No. They knew full well they were going to punt the date a couple weeks but they wanted customers to pick up their vehicles before end of 2016.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Totally agree. I started noticing this quarterly demand lever with their end to free supercharging at the end of 2016 announcement. Did anyone really think Tesla was going to announce the new paid supercharging program on New Years Day 2017? No. They knew full well they were going to punt the date a couple weeks but they wanted customers to pick up their vehicles before end of 2016.

Indeed. And then they came up with a second free supercharging program in Q2, right after finally "ending it" in Q1... and then after hinting at a lifetime free Supercharging and pulling in a few more weeks of orders in Q2, they limited it back to a limited time offer only...

Many extensions and changes to FoC SpC are just one example of the quarterly demand lever games, though. I think many opened their eyes to the quarterly demand levers already on Q3/2016 when "unknown" to Elon Musk, significant discounts were offered (on a product where no discounts allegedly are offered) to help meet the guidance...

It was Q2/2016 that was lackluster and I think the first real significant sign of waning demand for the Model S. Only a significant inventory build-out kept the manufacturing numbers decent. That IMO was when at the latest it stopped being true that Tesla is production constrained. The constant demand levers that have more aggressively been used since seems IMO further proof.

 

[sandpiper]

Do you think Tesla just makes it up as they go along? The flip flopping with supercharging and now options is getting weird. Taking away air seemed like it must have some logic - until 4 weeks later they flip and take away coil springs. Starting to wonder if they even have an actual marketing department or if it's some bros playing beer pong at 2 am coming up with this stuff.

It's a darn good question. Every time I've been able to peer inside a large organization, I've found that it's inevitably more chaotic and more "seat of the pants" than I would ever have expected. Telsa may, in fact, be a complete nuthouse. In a good way.

 

[Mike K]

Hey I got my 75D last October. Since then:
- AP2 (in Nov)
- Powered liftgate standard
- Performance upgrade
- Air included
- Premium package for sound/biohazard/lighting bundled
- High power charger

But I don't feel bad at all. I love to see the cars get better and better. I'll be getting my next Tesla (prob another Model S) in a few years, and at this rate it's going to be something special.

You forgot that the new 75Ds are a full second faster to 60mph than yours. I think you have the right attitude. They cars are going to get better. It's not as if Tesla made older cars worse. If you loved it when you bought there should be no reason not to continue to loving it as the newer variants are getting better/ cheaper or both.

That said, I can understand the frustration here. The moves with supercharging and all these option shifts strike me as ways of pushing sales short term at the cost of pissing people off long term. There was a time not very long ago where a base S75D had a solid roof, no power tailgate, no ambient lighting, coil suspension and it was significantly slower than it is now. In a matter of just a few months we now have the glass roof as standard, performance equal to the original P85, standard air suspension, ambient lighting, power tailgate, etc. The car represents a marked increase in value over the same car purchased just 6 months ago. As someone that's looking to buy, that's awesome. I can't say I'd be whistling that same tune had I purchased in January though...