Latest Price Drop Discussion

[Knightshade]

Go and try to get on the waiting list for the new Supra....

Holy cow did that thing turn out to be a failburger... way too little, way too late, for way too much.... and I write that as someone who has owned several previous Supras

 

[Daveman]

I heard many times that Tesla is like Apple.
Unfortunately not. Apple is successful because customers can be sure that price will not change significantly. Especially if they have not introduced new version of the product.

Such price changes maybe bring some new customers but hurting the brand.

HUH? The iPhone model I bought 18 months ago is now ~1/3 the cost.

Apple introduces new versions. Tesla introduces new versions.
There's not much that physically depreciates on a phone. A car? Different story.
An iPhone has ~3 year life. A Tesla has ~20 year life

Just relax & enjoy the car!

 

[CCIE]

That may be for some people. But I couldn't give a rats ass about what kind of car people see me in. I bought a Stealth P3D because I like the way it drives and the low cost of operation. When it's just me, or me and my wife, cruising down a beautiful backroad and the car is hugging every curve and acting like an extension of my mind, it's priceless. I could deny myself that pleasure, but why?

For me, it's all about the car, it has nothing to do with vanity. If you don't appreciate driving a nice car, just drive a 12-year-old Honda Accord with a small amount of coolant smell and exhaust leaking into the cabin. You'll save money. The question is, what are you going to spend that money on that you DIDN'T spend on the Model 3 that will improve every day of your life more than the priceless feeling of driving a truly modern, safe and fun car like the Model 3. And how do you value the health, safety and comfort of you and your family?

I'm all about being financially responsible but that doesn't make me a miser.

No offense intended. I own one too, so I'm not throwing stones. I should have said that buying a $50k+ car is done with the heart, not with the head.

 

[tfraley]

I kinda of get what the OP was getting at.

It's one thing for your car to depreciate like others have said here.
But with price cuts it adds to the depreciation, I get that and it does suck.

With that said we bought into EV's when they are not main stream
Next year 2020, They're will be tons of EV's in the market. Company's have been sticking their toes in the water.
But next year they will be jumping with both feat.

I expect Tesla to come down in price to compete with every one else.
My prediction is and what Tesla should do is price the cars lower seeing they are getting over their manufacturing hump.
The one think that sets Tesla above is the Full self driving it will take anyone a while to get there.
I would say price the car to compete and raise the price on Full self driving .. Make that the premium not the car.
It will me a new market next year and they will have to change something.

I could of waited another year or two for a Tesla but I wanted it now and accepted the price.
But keep in mind if you trade in later the price of the car will be lower as well so it works it self out

my 2 cents

 

[Daveman]

Yes. Whatever Tesla does make sense. Who does not agree is just pissing against the wind.

So Tesla should stop innovating, improving, and tuning the business? Wow...All about you I guess.

 

[StealthP3D]

I just got back from a round trip LAX to Italy with a family of four. Painful, very, very painful. Come back to all types of 50% off airfare offers, more painful, but I can only go forward, unless I can return the trip?

Not losing sleep over it.

What? You mean you didn't come back from Italy and start an Internet thread about how evil the airlines are for making stuff cheaper? Now any plebian can take his family to Italy and how this has "ruined" the memories of your trip? But you're not going to complain endlessly about how much hate you have for the airlines who brought these low fares to the people?

What the heck is wrong with you anyway?

 

[JanG007]

Frankly, 10.000 in a few months for the new, same car, i would not be amused either actually. I’m not talking about depreciation here.

In Europe, you take a car magazine in januari and one in december the list price is the same. You know you Can negotiate (3-9%) but that’s It.

Sometimes, they do sales and have special editions but also that is done on known dates almost and not random, for instance, when Merc had their 130 year anniversary you got like a lot more discount.

It’s not a Seat on the plane, that game we all know, it’s not a television set you pick up for 1000 or 2000 bucks, it’s one of the biggest expenses for a house hold.

Also, try to buy It cash and not on credit....I think you would also be less amused...

I think that part of the “problem” is that Tesla doesn’t advertise and indeed doesn’t have dealers so It happens Without notice.

Look, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over It but i do let the OP have his rant.
Musk does this for a reason and not out of charity, it’s a business so ...

To end, I just got an order change from Tesla for my car thats on order. It’s white so I got 1500€ back ..... was I happy, sure, I paid less, now think about the OP.

It works in both ways, I didn’t send them. Mail to tell them to keep It, that I was happy to still pay for the white Free Color.

PS: but I agree, that all doesn’t mean Musk is a liar or Tesla is a lying company, it’s part of the new experience

 

[ohmman]

Moderator note: Apologies for the merge, but there were too many threads with many of the same participants and the same discussions happening concurrently. I merged a few threads, which will probably make reading the prior messages a little messy, but will hopefully keep all discussion in a single thread. I have also closed a number of other threads and have redirected participants here.

I am truly sorry, as there are no ideal solutions to merging threads of this size. I did what seemed best for promoting a single line of discussion.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

MODS:

I am not a fan of merging threads

this is a very disjointed conversation to even attempt following now.

I blame you for my headache.

 

[raptor5244]

The interesting thing Telsa is doing is changing the game as it relates to price vs. performance. I was a buyer for an M3P at $60k because I thought there is really nothing else in the market this versatile. Utility, fuel savings, tech, fun-to-drive, performance, etc. I just don't see any competition for less than $60k. Challenger/Charger Hellcats, Camaro ZL1s, Corvettes, BMW M4s, Audi RS5s, etc. There really isn't anything that can deliver this level of performance for $54,990 or $49,990 if you get the 3P-. Sure, some cars will handle better, have a great exhaust note, convertible option, row your own gears, etc. but normally you would have to spend $80k+.

I am glad Tesla is making the M3P more affordable and I hope many more join the club but I think they may be leaving money on the table as it relates to the M3P trim. If the competition was already here with EVs with similar performance specs then that would be different. Maybe performance specs will be a thing of the past soon. I mean the Rivian pickup truck coming out is advertised as 0-60mph in 3 sec, which is hysterical.

 

[KSilver2000]

One thing is for sure and was confirmed in the past by EM himself. Tesla will consistently continue to lower prices over time (notice he was referring to “rebates” and “discounts”, not price increases).

 

[T3SLAROD]

I kinda of get what the OP was getting at.

It's one thing for your car to depreciate like others have said here.
But with price cuts it adds to the depreciation, I get that and it does suck.

With that said we bought into EV's when they are not main stream
Next year 2020, They're will be tons of EV's in the market. Company's have been sticking their toes in the water.
But next year they will be jumping with both feat.

I expect Tesla to come down in price to compete with every one else.
My prediction is and what Tesla should do is price the cars lower seeing they are getting over their manufacturing hump.
The one think that sets Tesla above is the Full self driving it will take anyone a while to get there.
I would say price the car to compete and raise the price on Full self driving .. Make that the premium not the car.
It will me a new market next year and they will have to change something.

I could of waited another year or two for a Tesla but I wanted it now and accepted the price.
But keep in mind if you trade in later the price of the car will be lower as well so it works it self out

my 2 cents

Just wait until the Model 3s comes out for $40k with FSD and Dual Motor..... it’s going to be a blood bath.....

I mean depending on your State, you pretty much got more that $10k in incentives as adopters... am I wrong?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Just wait until the Model 3s comes out for $40k with FSD and Dual Motor..... it’s going to be a blood bath.....

I mean depending on your State, you pretty much got more that $10k in incentives as adopters... am I wrong?

would be nice if Tesla softens the depreciation blow somewhat when I go to buy the pickup in a few years.

will it happen? likely not. but it would be nice if they offered a little something to say "sorry your trade-in artificially depreciated faster than it should have"

 

[KSilver2000]

The interesting thing Telsa is doing is changing the game as it relates to price vs. performance. I was a buyer for an M3P at $60k because I thought there is really nothing else in the market this versatile. Utility, fuel savings, tech, fun-to-drive, performance, etc. I just don't see any competition for less than $60k. Challenger/Charger Hellcats, Camaro ZL1s, Corvettes, BMW M4s, Audi RS5s, etc. There really isn't anything that can deliver this level of performance for $54,990 or $49,990 if you get the 3P-. Sure, some cars will handle better, have a great exhaust note, convertible option, row your own gears, etc. but normally you would have to spend $80k+.

I am glad Tesla is making the M3P more affordable and I hope many more join the club but I think they may be leaving money on the table as it relates to the M3P trim. If the competition was already here with EVs with similar performance specs then that would be different. Maybe performance specs will be a thing of the past soon. I mean the Rivian pickup truck coming out is advertised as 0-60mph in 3 sec, which is hysterical.

I don’t think so because the take rate of the 3P was very low, lower than many of those performance trims from other ICE brands that you mentioned.

 

[JamesBrown]

They should learn from Apple.

My wifes iPhone 7+ was $900 new Feb 2017 and is now worth about $250. That is 72% depreciation after 2.2 years later. Also this is not a launch device, this is a 10th generation update and still carries that high of a loss. That's for one of the largest companies in the world with the most efficient and developed supply chains.

The first 42mm Apple Watch Edition was $12,000 at launch and can now be found for around $200-300 on ebay. That is 98% depreciation over 4 years.

My 2016 BMW 750i Msport was $112k and now can be purchased for about $40k used. A 2016 Tesla Model X P90DL was about $140k and now runs about 70k used.

No matter what you claim, there are industry examples of similar or worse depreciation. This is not some kind of new revelation that only impacts Tesla Model 3 owners. For some reason they just complain the most.

 

[raptor5244]

I don’t think so because the take rate of the 3P was very low, lower than many of those performance trims from other ICE brands that you mentioned.

The performance trims usually have a low take rate in general though. Any idea what percentage of M3s sold are M3P?

 

[rembaz]

My wifes iPhone 7+ was $900 new Feb 2017 and is now worth about $250. That is 72% depreciation after 2.2 years later. Also this is not a launch device, this is a 10th generation update and still carries that high of a loss. That's for one of the largest companies in the world with the most efficient and developed supply chains.

The first 42mm Apple Watch Edition was $12,000 at launch and can now be found for around $200-300 on ebay. That is 98% depreciation over 4 years.

My 2016 BMW 750i Msport was $112k and now can be purchased for about $40k used. A 2016 Tesla Model X P90DL was about $140k and now runs about 70k used.

No matter what you claim, there are industry examples of similar or worse depreciation. This is not some kind of new revelation that only impacts Tesla Model 3 owners. For some reason they just complain the most.

You did not get the point.

 

[StealthP3D]

So true - the person sitting next to you paid half, or twice, what you did! They all it, "Dynamic pricing"...

So, with the relatively small price adjustments at Tesla (relative to other manufacturers), doesn't that mean Tesla is not very dynamic?

I can see the headlines tomorrow in The Shortsville Times:

New Analysis Ranks Tesla the Least Dynamic Automaker

Almost every other automaker ranked significantly higher in terms of dynamic pricing relative to their competition. Analyst Alex Jonas of Goldman Lords Brokerage said Tesla was leaving a lot of money on the table by not adopting more dynamic pricing schemes for their rather bland product line-up. This will likely have a devastating effect on their profit margins going forward and has led consumers to expect relatively non-dynamic Tesla pricing so any change to their pricing models, such as adopting more dynamic schemes, could actually be worse going forward. This leaves Tesla in the unenviable position of likely losing money in the coming two weeks which of course impacts their ability to remain a going concern.

Jonas outlined a very convincing bear case in which Tesla will likely be bankrupt in 29 days give or take a week. In his bull case scenario, which he has serious doubts is even a realistic scenario, Tesla will struggle for the next 79 days before expiring due to lack of funds. He explained that consumers have come to expect consistently small but reliable price drops from Tesla every quarter as the Federal Tax Credits are reduced. Given the current lack of strong demand for the Model 3, any change to their expected pricing drops will cause the remaining demand to dry up. He contrasted that to other manufacturer's who have real dealer networks who can dynamically adjust pricing on the fly to compensate for things like the negotiating skill of each individual customer. This ability to dynamically adjust pricing for each customer can result in profits of up to $10,000 or more on each car while Tesla has locked themselves into a non-dynamic pricing model. Consumers are accustomed to the traditional dynamic pricing model and are not bothered by it because it typically happens in the manager's office where they cannot see it.

Jonas concluded by saying that most car shoppers carry a certain amount of sub-conscious personal guilt and have come to rely on dynamic pricing to rip them a new A-hole. He said it's a form of penance that consumers rely on to cleanse their spirit. Tesla's pricing model, on the other hand, can not achieve the same sort of spiritual cleansing which he expects will reduce demand for their uninspiring products in the coming weeks while simultaneously having a devastating effect on profit margins.

 

[KSilver2000]

The performance trims usually have a low take rate in general though. Any idea what percentage of M3s sold are M3P?

Tesla does not break down their model sales by trim in their reports. (I don’t think they should as well because it won’t paint a good picture given their current sales).

I live in one of the densest Tesla markets (San Francisco region), and I see more RS, M, AMG, GT, etc than the Tesla P’s. I’ve said it before. I think it’s a combination of price and trim differentiation. The general car buyer obviously buys a car for both function and form. Apart from the stronger rear motor, Tesla P’s barely have anything differentiating a P (or PL) from even the cheapest, most basic trims. Some may like that sleeper type, but I think most do not.

 

[DJVoorhees]

It's a good thing people don't talk about the price they paid for a seat when sitting on the airplane.

People do, all the time, hotel rooms too - there are entire industries devoted to it with TV commercials and all,