Launch is Imminent

[strider]

I hear ya, but the CT does have a few convenience issues I actually prefer - it comes down to preferences. I like the adjustable ride height, shorter turning radius, quicker charge time and availability of SC network, dog mode, park and warm it in my garage etc. I'm not dissing Ford, heck I own one (have owned a half dozen Ford trucks) but I'll be switching it out whenever the CT is available to me. I own another Tesla and some of those things are very easy to get used to.

Most of things are also available on the Lightning. SC network, remote climate control, etc.

Yeah I thought it would slightly edge out the Rivian at least on city streets after seeing the range and approximate capacity. But did not expect a scalar exceeding 0.8!

It’s definitely time for EPA to make a change - no more of this silly business and just do a constant 70mph range test. (In addition to existing tests.)

City-only efficiencies from above:
CT unknown tires: 410Wh/mi
R1TDL 20” AT: 409Wh/mi
R1TDL 21” street: 360Wh/mi

Things won’t look better for CT relative to Rivian on the highway for sure.

Car and Driver and I believe Edmunds do real world range tests so once CTs make it into the hands of those folks we will have some better data. But the fact is that Tesla is the clear winner for overstating range. We're already down to 301 "Tesla miles" for the CyberBeast with stock tires. how low can it go!?

What I don't understand is how come, on a 18.6+ foot long by 8 foot wide chassis, Tesla engineers could not find room to house ample quantity of batteries without taking up space in the trunk?

Did they not utilize any of the space under the bed?
Did they not figure out how to mega-cast the right shapes to contain the batteries?
Did all the the good engineers quit after JB Straubel left?

The presence of "Range Extender", at any price, is an admission of failure to design the chassis around target battery capacity shape and size. Or engineering incompetence to execute on the plan.
This just seams way too weird to be true.
Yet, it is.

a

P.S.: Rivian managed to fit 149 kWh battery under its chassis. Tesla tapped out at 123 kWh. ;-(

Literally everything comes back to Elon/Tesla's assumption that the 4680s would be further along by now. They set the pack size and did all the engineering based on where they expected the 4680s to be and they haven't gotten there. They kept delaying the CT, hoping for a breakthrough that never came. So instead of reworking everything to use 2170s or 18650s (or increase the size of the pack in order to hold more cells with all of the reengineering of the chassis that would require) they decided to just ship what they had and let the range suck.

 

[jebinc]

1) Most of things are also available on the Lightning. SC network, remote climate control, etc.

2) Car and Driver and I believe Edmunds do real world range tests so once CTs make it into the hands of those folks we will have some better data. But the fact is that Tesla is the clear winner for overstating range. We're already down to 301 "Tesla miles" for the CyberBeast with stock tires. how low can it go!?

3) Literally everything comes back to Elon/Tesla's assumption that the 4680s would be further along by now. They set the pack size and did all the engineering based on where they expected the 4680s to be and they haven't gotten there. They kept delaying the CT, hoping for a breakthrough that never came. So instead of reworking everything to use 2170s or 18650s (or increase the size of the pack in order to hold more cells with all of the reengineering of the chassis that would require) they decided to just ship what they had and let the range suck.

1) So does the Rivian offering (now nearly 3 years in production)

2) I can't imagine real world reports being much better than 75% of what Tesla says, based on prior Tesla model real world range tests. Time will tell, as you say...

3) Yep, because they know the fanbase will buy anything if Elon says to...

Best of luck to the Early Adopters - As we all know, there will be many changes and improvements to this product in the coming 12-36 months. Enjoy your soon to be out of date, unsupported and unretrofittable "Founder's Edition" (note: Speaking from early Plaid adopter experience, but FUD, but FACT).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

We're already down to 301 "Tesla miles" for the CyberBeast with stock tires. how low can it go!?

Looks like it is around 290 miles for Dual (aka 318 A/T) and 270-275 for Beast (aka 301 A/T), when normalized.

We’ll see. Some assumptions there. Scalar is probably more like 0.77. Not 0.82.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Looks like it is around 290 miles for Dual, and 270-275 for Beast, when normalized.

We’ll see. Some assumptions there. Scalar is probably more like 0.77. Not 0.82.

so maybe 140-160 miles when towing...

 

[jebinc]

so maybe 140-160 miles when towing...

And 100 miles if light towing in the cold?

 

[aerodyne]

Thanks. Sounds like another HW1, HW2, HW2.5, HW3, HW4, HWx FSD like journey…

Need HW 11. Can't come fast enough.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

so maybe 140-160 miles when towing...

Certainly a possible typical outcome, depending on load and speed.

It’s an efficient truck with a small pack. Still want someone to use Model Y as template and determine if there is room for more cells. Can they pack 1000 pounds more in there without impacting payload? I think very unlikely but we’ll see.

 

[aerodyne]

1) So does the Rivian offering (now nearly 3 years in production)

2) I can't imagine real world reports being much better than 75% of what Tesla says, based on prior Tesla model real world range tests. Time will tell, as you say...

3) Yep, because they know the fanbase will buy anything if Elon says to...

Best of luck to the Early Adopters - As we all know, there will be many changes and improvements to this product in the coming 12-36 months. Enjoy your soon to be out of date, unsupported and unretrofittable "Founder's Edition" (note: Speaking from early Plaid adopter experience, but FUD, but FACT).

The early adopters might have waited to get a better vehicle, but they will never pay more....

 

[DarkandStormy]

And 100 miles if light towing in the cold?

Built tough.

 

[jebinc]

The early adopters might have waited to get a better vehicle, but they will never pay more....

TRUTH

 

[gtgarner]

so maybe 140-160 miles when towing...

There will NEVER be a definitive towing promise out there that remains true in ALL cases.

There are just tooooooo many factors involved.

Driving 200 miles into ha headwind vs. Driving 200 miles into a tail wind. People will be (not maybe) complaining about range all over this forum because they didn't get 200 miles of towing - but at the same time won't mention that they traveled the whole entire distance with a 40mph headwind uphill in the rain with the Heat controls set to 95 degrees and a 500lb weight/dumbell set in the back seat.

 

[jebinc]

There will NEVER be a definitive towing promise out there that remains true.

There are just tooooooo many factors involved.

Driving 200 miles into ha headwind vs. Driving 200 miles into a tail wind. People will be (not maybe) complaining about range all over this forum because they didn't get 200 miles of towing - but at the same time won't mention that they traveled the whole entire distance with a 40mph headwind uphill in the rain with the Heat controls set to 95 degrees and a 500lb weight/dumbell set in the back seat.

Yes, many variables as you say, including towed vehicle weight, shape, height and more.

Re many complaining posts, I suspect TMC will be overflowing with many threads on many CT matters by the end of 2024. Many.

 

[gtgarner]

Hey, I'll drop a goldfish in the piranha fish tank forum. It appears that things have quieted a bit.



How would someone jump a 48V cybertruck. What would you use?

Can the cybertruck jump another vehicle?

Let's feed off of that question for a while.

 

[jebinc]

Hey, I'll drop a goldfish in the piranha fish tank forum. It appears that things have quieted a bit.



How would someone jump a 48V cybertruck. What would you use?

Can the cybertruck jump another vehicle?

Let's feed off of that question for a while.

Already a thread…

You can Jump a Cybertruck with 12v or 48v

According to Tesla, should the 48v battery be discharged (so you can't enable the HV battery), you can jump-start with 12v or 48v. They have additional circuitry to detect the voltage, and if 12v, step it up to 48v. Very clever!

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Cal1]

I suspect Cybertruck fixes/improvements/refreshes/etc. will be magnitudes greater than all of the changes made at the 1 and 2 year mark for refreshed Model S Plaid and LR… And there were many there…. Any prospective Cybertruck early adopters should heed the lessons learned on the refreshed Model S Plaid/LR early adopter experience…

I just posted a Welcome to the early adopter club response to this effect on one of the Lightning forums. Guys complaining about all the stuff wrong on their new to the market Lightning's. I don’t think anything I’ve seen on the CT will be enough for people to want out instantly. The diffence in the Ford world is that they for the most part just don’t get it. Initially there were loads of folks claiming the standard range battery would be fine. Until the winter hit. Now those same folks complain that the winter range is too low I get that the price difference was huge but it doesn’t excuse making a decision that you should have know better. Especially when experienced ev owners tried to warn them that they were making a mistake. THEN they found that no one wanted their SR Trucks when they wanted to dump them.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There will NEVER be a definitive towing promise out there that remains true in ALL cases.

There are just tooooooo many factors involved.

Driving 200 miles into ha headwind vs. Driving 200 miles into a tail wind. People will be (not maybe) complaining about range all over this forum because they didn't get 200 miles of towing - but at the same time won't mention that they traveled the whole entire distance with a 40mph headwind uphill in the rain with the Heat controls set to 95 degrees and a 500lb weight/dumbell set in the back seat.

With towing, since a much larger portion of the energy is going to extra rolling resistance, aero losses, etc, it’s mostly dominated by drivetrain efficiency under heavy load (probably fairly similar between most EVs), and pack energy (very different). The aero and rolling resistance of the truck itself end up mattering less.

So for distance between charges, it’s the pack size that is going to dominate.

Of course this can be mitigated by faster charging, more convenient charging, etc., but when just talking about range when towing, it’s going to be mostly the pack energy.

People are going to find nothing else matters (much). I’d be interested in how the Hummer performs when towing (per above argument it really should do pretty decently assuming there is not something horribly lossy in the drivetrain - not sure about that situation).

 

[ThomasD]

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Unfortunately I have no patience. All I saw was brief clip of 160kW at apparently steady 70mph. That is 2250Wh/mi. Not going to get too far even with 200+kWh.


Hopefully when someone actually compares these trucks, rather than only looking at range, they look at efficiency to help make sense of the results (they won’t). The shape of the truck matters a bit but it is hard to make up for a very poor aero load.

But if the Rivian or Cybertruck have substantially lower consumption all else being equal, that suggests some sort of motor efficiency advantage (or the shape of the truck helping with the aero of the trailer, as was mentioned in discussion of laminar flow in a recent Munro video - could be negligible impact of course).

 

[strider]

1) So does the Rivian offering (now nearly 3 years in production)

My issue w/ the Rivian (besides being coyote ugly) is that it doesn't have V2H. They say that they are working on it but it will take a separate and expensive box. I like that the CT and F-150 have 240V plugs with built-in inverters in the bed (though I do wish the Ford had 40A like the CT instead of 30A). Super handy for all kinds of uses (food truck anyone?).

 

[ThomasD]