License Plate Bulb replacement

[Ceilidh]

@araxara: Thanks a ton for the pics and the info. I had already planned on doing this mod but ordered the wrong kind of bulbs so you just saved my project.

Very much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[mknox]

Since there are two bulbs required, you should gain 16 W (10W - 2W)*2 = 16 W. This means you get 2 miles per 37.5 hours of driving!

Or at $0.14/KW hour for electricity, you'll save $8.75 for every 1000 hours your lights are on.

These are the kinds of big savings I live for! Use 1W bulbs and save even more (although not much more).

Okay, so I was kidding, but that is actually kinda cool.

 

[Babylonfive]

Since there are two bulbs required, you should gain 16 W (10W - 2W)*2 = 16 W. This means you get 2 miles per 37.5 hours of driving!

Or at $0.14/KW hour for electricity, you'll save $8.75 for every 1000 hours your lights are on.

These are the kinds of big savings I live for! Use 1W bulbs and save even more (although not much more).

Two bulbs? Where. Once over the rear plate and...

 

[FlasherZ]

Two bulbs? Where. Once over the rear plate and...

Two over the rear plate. One on the left and one on the right.

 

[araxara]

The link provided by Araxara indicates these are 1W bulbs in the heading. However, reading the specs in the ad states they are 2W each. Has anyone received these bulbs yet to confirm their actual wattage, and whether the brightness is correct? Thanks.

I checked these 1W bulbs out. The package actually says 2W, but I took actual measurements at two different voltages:

1. .049A @12.54V = 0.61W
2. .071A @15.61V = 1.11W

So even at around 15V these LED bulbs consume about 1W each. Obviously, the power consumption of these bulbs isn't indicative of their lumen output. I've noticed that you can't really rely on the specs of power consumption or lumen output of LED bulbs sold on eBay (or most online retailers). Generally for automotive applications, the higher wattage LEDs produce more light and you need an LED that consumes about 1/4 the power of an incandescent bulb to equal its brightness.

 

[swegman]

So, are the LED lamps as bright as the original bulb, or brighter? You indicated that the first LED bulb you installed were too bright. Are these new LED bulbs you selected comparable in brightness to the ones supplied by Tesla?

 

[DaveVa]

Thanks for the post! Mine are ordered.

On a related front. Can brighter LED bulbs be ordered for the Frunk and Trunk spaces that would fit directly in the current lighting fixtures? I know there have been post of adding lights to the area, but it would be great if we could just upgrade the bulbs for an incremental improvement.

 

[araxara]

So, are the LED lamps as bright as the original bulb, or brighter? You indicated that the first LED bulb you installed were too bright. Are these new LED bulbs you selected comparable in brightness to the ones supplied by Tesla?

My car is still being serviced - it won't be back till 18-Jan, so I can't compare the brightness on the car. I have nothing, other than my eyes, to compare brightness, but I'll set up an external comparison running the original incandescent bulbs and the 1W LEDs in parallel. Also, due to the color difference of the bulbs, the LEDs will appear brighter for the same light output. As I stated previously, turning the LEDs away from the lens will reduce the brightness a bit - the housing is not very reflective.

- - - Updated - - -

Can brighter LED bulbs be ordered for the Frunk and Trunk spaces that would fit directly in the current lighting fixtures? I know there have been post of adding lights to the area, but it would be great if we could just upgrade the bulbs for an incremental improvement.

Those "bulbs" are actually a circuit board with a single LED soldered on, they are not conventional replaceable bulbs. I'm sure someone could glue on and solder a few more LEDs (and proper current limiting resistor), but it would be a hack job. Also, it's unclear if additional heat sinking would be required.

 

[vcor]

On a related front. Can brighter LED bulbs be ordered for the Frunk and Trunk spaces that would fit directly in the current lighting fixtures? I know there have been post of adding lights to the area, but it would be great if we could just upgrade the bulbs for an incremental improvement.

I was curious about that too - I couldn't tell if the bulb is removable or not. I was planning to add light gray carpet in both places to boost the reflected light which should help a bit.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

I wonder why Tesla went old-school with these bulbs.

Notwithstanding the energy savings noted above, I find that LEDs in that position look substantially better at night that incandescents (IMHO). They really do stand out from the crowd in traffic.

Possibly a DOT requirement, that the bulbs be easily replaceable?

 

[shokunin]

How's the color temperature of these bulbs? I tend to dislike the cold, bluish tint from cheaper LEDs. I'd prefer a more neutral white to match with the rest of the lighting on the car.

 

[Brian H]

How's the color temperature of these bulbs? I tend to dislike the cold, bluish tint from cheaper LEDs. I'd prefer a more neutral white to match with the rest of the lighting on the car.

IIRC, LEDs don't have one "temperature", but isolated spikes that emulate white. Artists won't use them for that reason. (Gaps in the palette.)

 

[vcor]

Possibly a DOT requirement, that the bulbs be easily replaceable?

I don't think so. I just checked the Lexus ones and they look like a LED on an PC board. They don't appear easily replaceable (no screws on the exterior) nor do I see any clips. This makes sense, since it would be rare for an LED replacement.

 

[araxara]

How's the color temperature of these bulbs? I tend to dislike the cold, bluish tint from cheaper LEDs. I'd prefer a more neutral white to match with the rest of the lighting on the car.

The bulb color appears about in the range of 5000-6000K. They are pretty white - slightly bluer than daylight. On the car they appear no more blue than other LED license plate lights.

 

[Ceilidh]

Just to confirm I understand this correctly, since I have never used LED license plate lights on any of my prior cars:

There are error free LED bulbs and regular old LED bulbs. I am assuming that if you are replacing an incandescent/halogen/old school bulb, then it does not matter if you get regular or error free since regular bulbs don't have a circuit board, and therefore, the car is not looking for data from the bulb if it came with regular bulbs OEM. I would then follow through to assume that the Model S with OEM old school license plate bulbs does not care if the LED replacements are error free cambus or plain Jane LED, and that only newer cars that had LEDs as OEM are a potential concern for error messages with the wrong LED bulb selection.

If this logic is flawed, please let me know. If correct please confirm for the good of the ignorant like myself.

Cheers

- - - Updated - - -

How's the color temperature of these bulbs? I tend to dislike the cold, bluish tint from cheaper LEDs. I'd prefer a more neutral white to match with the rest of the lighting on the car.

This made me smile. I appreciate differences in esthetic opinion. In general, I am not a fan of bluish white bulbs or blue bulbs on car license plates. However, I saw a Model S at night from the rear the other day and the very first thought I had was: That is the first car I think I have ever seen that would look better with blue LED license lights. Of course, just MHO. To some I am sure they are reminiscent of glow kits which personally make me shudder but I was surprised to have that reaction myself when I saw the MS at night. I think I thought of this because the back of the car at night reminded me of Tron.

Where I live in CA you have to be careful though because by law the license plate lights have to be white. If they are bright enough and close to white I am sure it would not be a problem. If it looks like a dark blue, particularly if dim, then... well, people can reference my tirade about leaving off the front License plate and gifting probable cause to the police. I will spare this thread from the verbiage.

Would love to see photos of people's MS cars at night from the rear before and after bulb replacement.

Cheers

 

[charliestyr]

I am assuming that if you are replacing an incandescent/halogen/old school bulb, then it does not matter if you get regular or error free since regular bulbs don't have a circuit board, and therefore, the car is not looking for data from the bulb if it came with regular bulbs OEM. I would then follow through to assume that the Model S with OEM old school license plate bulbs does not care if the LED replacements are error free cambus or plain Jane LED, and that only newer cars that had LEDs as OEM are a potential concern for error messages with the wrong LED bulb selection.

I don't know specifically to the Model S, but I know that you can get errors replacing old-school bulbs with LEDs. The car looks if there is current being drawn to the bulb socket, and if it is low/none then it presumes the bulb has blown and shows an error. This happens on lots of cars I think, including for example my 2008 Fiat 500 (EU) which is not that new, a "cheap" car and has incandescent light bulbs.

The problem is the LED bulbs draw so much less that the car presumes something is wrong with the bulb and shows an error. So, a lot of "error-free" LED bulbs just have a resistor in them to make them up to the normal power-draw. So basically, you are not saving any power (not that that really matters with this kind of minute detail) you are doing it purely for the look.

I'm not sure if that answers your question or if my writing is clear, sorry!

e2a: Having re-read, I really don't come to a conclusion. Basically, unless the LED bulb units have a resistor to make it up to the normal power draw for incandescents, it's perfectly possible you will get an error.

 

[vcor]

There are error free LED bulbs and regular old LED bulbs.

The LEDs are not "error free" or "regular" (and they are not bulbs either!). It can get confusing! Some cars that were designed to detect incandescent bulb burn-out don't work well with an LED that takes very little power. To get around this, some LEDs are packaged with a resistor or electronics (to consume more power like an incandescent bulb). With this special LED version, the electronics do not flag it as a burned out bulb. I'm guessing some sites selling LEDs state these types are "Error free" for this reason.

You should use a normal LED bulb on the Tesla. There is no detection for license plate bulb burnout.

On Color, yes, blue LEDs would likely get you a ticket, at least in California. A white LED with a blue cast (i.e. 4000-6000K color temperature) is fine. If you want the color to be closer to the original, then a LED around 2700K would work, but it's really a personal preference. I suspect most owners will opt for around 3000K color temperature. For those that are new to color temperature, it has nothing to do with heat from the LED. A simple view it's just a way of describing the tint of white (i.e. yellow-white is lower, and blue-white is higher in color temperature). I think others in this thread talking about a blue cast, are really talking about a white LED with a higher color temperature.

I'm guessing most white LEDs in the Tesla are in the range of 3000-3500K. These have been slightly brighter than the lower color temperature 2700K color for the same cost. When you buy consumer 120 VAC LEDs or CFLs they sometimes indicate warm or cool or daylight. This roughly translates to 2700-3000K (warm), 3500-4000 (cool), and 4500-5000 (daylight), but there is no official values for these labels. Likely more than you wanted to know!

 

[FlasherZ]

I'm guessing most white LEDs in the Tesla are in the range of 3000-3500K. These have been slightly brighter than the lower color temperature 2700K color for the same cost. When you buy consumer 120 VAC LEDs or CFLs they sometimes indicate warm or cool or daylight. This roughly translates to 2700-3000K (warm), 3500-4000 (cool), and 4500-5000 (daylight), but there is no official values for these labels. Likely more than you wanted to know!

The Tesla's LED lamps are more like 4000-4500K or so. 3000-3500K is still pretty yellow.

I've seen "warm" defined as 2700-3500K, "natural" as 4500Kish, daylight as 5000-6500K, and cool as anything higher than 6500K. As you say, labels vary.

I have 7600K LED strip bulbs in my office. Honestly, I think the police would have a hard time calling even that high of a color temperature as "blue" - they are bluish white.

 

[Ceilidh]

Thanks all. Quite helpful.

Cheers.

 

[araxara]

IIRC, LEDs don't have one "temperature", but isolated spikes that emulate white. Artists won't use them for that reason. (Gaps in the palette.)

Yes, that's right for individual LEDs, although some manufacturers, such as CREE, have LED modules which have a color rendition index (CRI) greater than 90.

The individual LEDs, such as used by automakers, do have isolated spikes: