Lifetime Average Wh/mi

[wdolson]

I'm also an engineer (Mech E), and it bothers me to no end. I don't know for sure, but the behavior seems to support the description that the compressor runs non stop and they just add warm air to achieve a temp warmer than "LO." My evidence is this: say the inside of my car is HOT, like 90F or so. I set to LO, let it run for a minute to reach max cool temp, and get a feeling (with my hand) for the temp of the air coming out. Then with my hand still feeling the cool air coming out (and inside temp is still VERY HOT say maybe 85F now) I set the temp to 65F. The air coming out of the vents instantly gets a tad bit warmer, but is still cool. The only explanation I can think of for this is that the AC compressor is still running, but they are adding some warm air. And this is WELL before the inside temp is even CLOSE to the set temp. This is just wrong on so many levels. But this is the behavior I observe in my Oct.2017 Model S75 (standard HVAC system, no HEPA / biodefense). I am not sure if/when the compressor runs when heating the car in the winter, but I assume it's running if the "AC" button is turned on.

This bothers me so much that when cooling the car, I end up just always leaving the AC at "LO" and I manually cycle it or simply adjust the fan to modulate inside temp. If the AC compressor is going to be running all the time anyway, I might as well manage it myself and not have warm air mixing in. It's just the principle of it, really. LOL.

The best way to prove this hypothesis would be to actually measure the temperature of the air coming out of the vents. I thought that the air coming out of our heat pump on the wall at home was a higher temp when the fan was on high. I stuck a thermometer in the outlet and verified that it was my imagination. The temperature of the air didn't change, it was my perception.

 

[aerodyne]

22 MSLR update. YTD is exactly 241wh/mi, even with some hot days. 245 since purchase 14 months ago

 

[David29]

22 MSLR update. YTD is exactly 241wh/mi, even with some hot days. 245 since purchase 14 months ago

Impressive!

 

[ran349]

22 MSLR update. YTD is exactly 241wh/mi, even with some hot days. 245 since purchase 14 months ago

What Wh/mi gives you rated miles matching driven miles?

 

[wdolson]

What Wh/mi gives you rated miles matching driven miles?

It depends on the car and the version. Someone who had hacked into the firmware published the numbers a few years ago. It was before the latest S/X refresh. It may have been before the Raven update too.

 

[seenhear]

What Wh/mi gives you rated miles matching driven miles?

Pre-Raven: my Oct. 2017 S75 gets predicted/rated ("rated" is long gone since the battery had degraded about 15%) range in real world conditions (e.g. not an oval track) at about 280 Wh/mi. Ravens and later must be significantly lower than that to have extended the 100kWh battery's range from ~315 to over 400mi rated. The "new car" efficiency rate for my era model S was right around 300Wh/mi, but I found that to be still too high for real world driving.
Mathematically it's not too hard to figure out from the rated range and the battery capacity, if you know the actual battery capacity from SMT app or something similar (nominal full pack / NFP)....
My NFP is about 63kWh. At 100% charge, I currently get 214 miles predicted range. So....

63,000 Wh / 214 mi = 294.4 Wh/mi to acheive the predicted/rated range. Pretty close to the "300" value of the new car. But in reality, if I'm not seeing numbers below about 280, I'm burning through miles of battery faster than my odometer ticks over.

That said, it seems to be non-linear in some instances. I recently (accidentally) charged my car up to 100% via level 2 charging at my work. It weirdly (for the first time in well over a year) reported 215 mi range (not the 214 I normally see). I started driving home and carefully watched the economy value, the odometer, the SOC percent, and the battery predicted range as I drove. I drove 4 miles before the battery indicated range dropped from 215 to 214. But by the time I got home (about 12 miles) the battery indicator and odometer showed the same amount gone.

 

[aerodyne]

What Wh/mi gives you rated miles matching driven miles?

Per EPA data, and some data from my longer trips, 241wh/mi

 

[wdolson]

Pre-Raven: my Oct. 2017 S75 gets predicted/rated ("rated" is long gone since the battery had degraded about 15%) range in real world conditions (e.g. not an oval track) at about 280 Wh/mi. Ravens and later must be significantly lower than that to have extended the 100kWh battery's range from ~315 to over 400mi rated. The "new car" efficiency rate for my era model S was right around 300Wh/mi, but I found that to be still too high for real world driving.
Mathematically it's not too hard to figure out from the rated range and the battery capacity, if you know the actual battery capacity from SMT app or something similar (nominal full pack / NFP)....
My NFP is about 63kWh. At 100% charge, I currently get 214 miles predicted range. So....

63,000 Wh / 214 mi = 294.4 Wh/mi to acheive the predicted/rated range. Pretty close to the "300" value of the new car. But in reality, if I'm not seeing numbers below about 280, I'm burning through miles of battery faster than my odometer ticks over.

That said, it seems to be non-linear in some instances. I recently (accidentally) charged my car up to 100% via level 2 charging at my work. It weirdly (for the first time in well over a year) reported 215 mi range (not the 214 I normally see). I started driving home and carefully watched the economy value, the odometer, the SOC percent, and the battery predicted range as I drove. I drove 4 miles before the battery indicated range dropped from 215 to 214. But by the time I got home (about 12 miles) the battery indicator and odometer showed the same amount gone.

Charging to 100% or close to it allows the range estimate code to re calibrate the estimate. If the battery is charged and discharged within the same narrow range all the time the estimate will drift from reality.

 

[DayTrippin]

The estimate is pretty much BS anyway. I just set it to show % and go from there. The only thing that seems close is when using the Energy screen.

 

[seenhear]

The estimate is pretty much BS anyway. I just set it to show % and go from there. The only thing that seems close is when using the Energy screen.

I also use % SOC display primarily. My wife still likes to display miles/range though. Interestingly though, it took over 4 miles of driving for the SOC to drop by 1%. That implies a 400mi range. So either way it's a non-linear calculation near the 100% mark.

 

[DayTrippin]

I also use % SOC display primarily. My wife still likes to display miles/range though. Interestingly though, it took over 4 miles of driving for the SOC to drop by 1%. That implies a 400mi range. So either way it's a non-linear calculation near the 100% mark.

Only thing worse than no info is inaccurate info. So I changed the car to % before she ever started driving it and has never known the alternative. Her cell phone doesn't show how many hours of battery life left so she has been fine with the car.

I can make a suggestion for you to get it closer if you want to use it. Select a wheel size larger than what you have on the car. For example, if you have 18's on the car, tell it you have 19 or 20's instead. Better to be a bit pessimistic about range and stop sooner than needed than the alternative.

 

[aerodyne]

Charging to 100% or close to it allows the range estimate code to re calibrate the estimate. If the battery is charged and discharged within the same narrow range all the time the estimate will drift from reality.

Has not been my experience on the 85pack. 2 months storage, twice, within 5 miles of RR when charged to a moderate level when I got back.

The few times I went to 100% actually lost a mile half the time.

Nor seeing need for high states of charge with the Refresh MS. Going from 50 to 88% less than 2 miles RR.

Now the refresh MS is in long term storage at less than 50% for two months. I suspect I'll still have 400+ miles RR when I get back and charge to 70%.

It's probably a moot point for some. I really can't see owning Tesla for as long as my warranty lasts.

Zach leaving should ring warning bells.

 

[wdolson]

Has not been my experience on the 85pack. 2 months storage, twice, within 5 miles of RR when charged to a moderate level when I got back.

The few times I went to 100% actually lost a mile half the time.

Nor seeing need for high states of charge with the Refresh MS. Going from 50 to 88% less than 2 miles RR.

Now the refresh MS is in long term storage at less than 50% for two months. I suspect I'll still have 400+ miles RR when I get back and charge to 70%.

It's probably a moot point for some. I really can't see owning Tesla for as long as my warranty lasts.

Zach leaving should ring warning bells.

Charging to 100% could cause it to go down too. It just allows the estimator to make a better estimate.

 

[aerodyne]

Charging to 100% could cause it to go down too. It just allows the estimator to make a better estimate.

Yes, because if the AC, fans and pumps come on, it will take that into account.

In my case 6Kw AC charge overnight outside in mid 50 deg temps, monitored by SMT.

The point I would like to make it it seems not to make sense to charge the new MS cars above 50% any more than you need to for the next trip.

 

[DewayneP]

I just got my 2013 MS85 a month ago but in the just over 4000 miles I've put on her I'm averaging 311wh/mi. I think that's pretty good considering all of my driving is through the PA "mountains".

 

[eschummer]

175,000 km on the first battery. Real-world without actually watching it over the last 8000km or so - 206 Wh/km ~ 330Wh/mi. Not sure where to read the lifetime value in the app - probably need to look in the car. In general, I find that for my car the most influential parameter is speed. I have a bit of a lead foot and so seldom dip below 200Wh/km for any stretch of road.

 

[seenhear]

175,000 km on the first battery. Real-world without actually watching it over the last 8000km or so - 206 Wh/km ~ 330Wh/mi. Not sure where to read the lifetime value in the app - probably need to look in the car. In general, I find that for my car the most influential parameter is speed. I have a bit of a lead foot and so seldom dip below 200Wh/km for any stretch of road.

Under 250 Wh/mi for a legacy model S is amazingly low. I'd say you don't have much of a lead foot at all. More like helium.

 

[sdmack]

Our 2020 Raven LR+ is showing 271 Wh/mi over the last 2500 miles. Some mountain, some flat, mostly desert ( hot summers, mild winters) mix of freeway and town driving.

 

[wdolson]

Under 250 Wh/mi for a legacy model S is amazingly low. I'd say you don't have much of a lead foot at all. More like helium.

Most of the numbers @eschummer gave were in Wh/Km rather than Wh/Mi. They converted one to 330 Wh/Mi.

 

[eschummer]

Yes, sorry I have everything in km. The Wh/mi numbers are 330 average for regular driving (with lead foot - LOL!).