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[lolachampcar] Performance Upgrade Efforts

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My baby is now on Tesla coil springs using air dampers. Ride heights are 28" front and 28 1/4" rear as measured through the hub to the bottom of the fender. This compares well with where I had it before on air and is slightly lower than air suspension Standard ride height.

I took it by the new West Palm Beach Tesla Service Center for Byron to drive. He was instrumental in this whole process and has been a big help. He agrees with me that it feels awesome. The feel is still not as sharp as a M5 but much better. I think I prefer this compromise as a M5 can be a bit harsh. What is important is that all the disconnected floaty air suspension feeling is gone. Some like that level of comfort but not me.

Major kudos to Tesla in California. I doubt there is any other manufacturer that would have even discussed letting me do what I did. THANK YOU!
 
I really need to try some other S' The coil P that I had for a few days was much floatier than my air P. It also had an extra bounce when coming off of a bridge deck or over a bump. The air just drops off of the bump and stays there. Also handling was different in the coils where the stability control would kick on in a straight line while
shimmying' the steering wheel back and forth (on dry pavement). My car takes a bit more of a harsh shimmy to get the SC to kick on. (+ the loaner P had conti's that were newer than my Hankooks are)

I'd love to see how you car rides. Sounds awesome
 
Will do on the pics. I'm chasing ride height right now as things seem to "settle" with time. I wish I still had the adjustable perches on the car as that would be a heck of a lot easier than pulling out the dampers each time I make a change.

Also, my wife is a bit sore but seems otherwise ok. I'll know more on Monday.

Zex,

The ability to settle after a bump may be the increased rebound on the air dampers…..
 
I'm really interested to see where this thread goes. I ordered the P85+ which we picked up 11/29. I had only driven a P85 when we placed the order and I was expecting a serious suspension upgrade for $6500. I've tracked and raced BMWs for many years and you can buy some pretty nice Moton, MCS or Ohlins dampers for that kind of money. I'm really not that impressed with the suspension tuning on the P85+ over stock. The car seems floaty in high speed sweepers, especially with any surface imperfections. Perhaps I'm just spoiled by driving BMWs all these years. This car is more than M5 money and I had high expectations.
 
jb,
It is likely you drove a newer P85 and are comparing it to your current production P+. Although my opinion on this subject is constantly evolving, here is what I think you are feeling.

The primary issue I had with my Feb. delivery P85 was what I can best describe is a "windup" feeling in the rear of the car. Under hard acceleration, the rear wheels would "pull forward", loose traction, snap back and then repeat as the car launched. I also felt this uncertainty accelerating in corners without the slip recovery of course. This was all gone with July P+. It was also gone with my wife's Sept. S85! I came to learn that Tesla was using the stiffer lower a-arm bushings first in the P+ then in all production. As a result, my wife's S85 on coil springs felt REALLY good. Sure, it was as high as a pickup (just kidding here but its up there) but there was a nice immediacy about the feel that reminded me of BMWs. I too am a long time BMW guy and big time M5 fan (or at least up the the V10s).

Given that all production is getting the new lower a-arms, what you get with the production P+ is wider rims/tires, larger sway bars and stiffer dampers. You can do a lot of experimentation of wheels and tires for what 21s cost. As for the larger sway bars, I really did not take issue with roll control on my Sept. P85 and thus did not/do not require the larger bars. With those larger bars comes increased head snatch going over road imperfections or speed bumps at an angle. The increased bump and rebound on the dampers is nice.

At the same time, the P+ insists you have air suspension and I think this is what you are finding less than desirable. Drive an AMG E63 and C63 back to back and you will understand immediately just how different air and coil suspensions are. Some prefer the way air shaves off the sharp edge and feedback of the coils. Others do not. If you are one of the ones that does not (like me), air can be distasteful.

jcaspar,
Yes, it did actually come down to swapping out the coil dampers for air dampers if you start with coil. The air dampers have increase bump and rebound damping over the coils so you get an overall stiffening affect. Bilstein sets ride height using a C clip that locates the lower spring perch. The damper body ID and OD are the same all the way down and Bilstein actually provides truck dampers with multiple grooves for adjustable lift so it is common and accepted practice to have multiple ride height grooves without affecting the structural integrity of the dampers. I simply added some extra grooves to achieve my desired ride height. I started off using 2.5" springs over adjustable spring perches to get me in the ball park for ride height then transferred this knowledge over to an initial guess for added spring clip grooves and stock springs. I was able to confirm that the stock spring rates were going to work for me by trying different rates in 2.5" ID springs. I'm still working through the final ride height (which involves removing the dampers each time to move the spring perch location clips - PITA) but I am getting very close.

WRT the quality and type of dampers, I have never been one to do much damper adjustment. I find something that works for me and then never touch the adjusters. Tesla uses excellent quality Bilstein dampers on MS so, for me, it was a matter of seeing if Tesla already was making something that worked for me. Now that I have my P+ dampers off the car I will put them on the shock dyno and plot bump and rebound against the coil spring and standard air dampers at which point we will know everything that is available from Tesla at this point.

jb, in closing, you should probably stop by and drive my car if you find yourself in the West Palm Beach area :) I've found that air dampers on coil springs at Standard air ride heights produces a nice car to drive. It is still not a M5 in outright stiffness but that is ok for me. The feel is much more to my liking now and I am ok without the harsh extreme.
 
I just got back from the alignment rack to set toe in the rear after changing to the 0.250" longer upper arms. There is insufficient toe adjustment for these longer arms with the stock length toe links. Another owner actually had to make longer toe arms as well and now I know the limit. For reference, my car achieved no less than .6 degrees total toe in with the 0.250" long arms. I'm putting the 0.210" longer arms back on the car.
 
That's a bummer. I wonder if you can work in partnership with someone that wants to be in the Tesla tuning business? I'm surprised no one is stepping up to dip their toe in this market. It seems like there are many of us on the forums who are willing to spend. Who is going to be the Dinan, Alpina or Turner Motorsport of the Tesla world? I wonder if Dinan would consider it? He's also in the bay area so there could be some authenticity to it working on Teslas. For fabricating suspension parts TC Design, TC Design also in the bay area, does some amazing work and knows there way around suspension geometry and tuning.
 
I just got back from the alignment rack to set toe in the rear after changing to the 0.250" longer upper arms. There is insufficient toe adjustment for these longer arms with the stock length toe links. Another owner actually had to make longer toe arms as well and now I know the limit. For reference, my car achieved no less than .6 degrees total toe in with the 0.250" long arms. I'm putting the 0.210" longer arms back on the car.

Thanks for trying and keeping us all informed along the way. I try to keep up with your modifications as I believe it is/will be of great benefit to all of us.
 
Many thanks to LolaChampcar for all the great insight and hard work you've done and shared with us.
I took delivery of my 85 with standard suspension in August and want to lower the car and get rid of the extra wasted space.
Do you know if it is any easier than the dedicated effort you have invested in your project?
Any information is helpful and again, thanks for all your posts and the photos.
 
I just happen to know someone with a brandy new set of coil spring dampers :)
I really should get them groved for adjustable ride height then people could just swap out their existing dampers and there would always be a set "in play". The just swap them out is a bit of a pita. I think I had both my front and rears off and on five or six times before I got the ride height exactly perfect. Each time I had to use a spring compressor to contain the springs so I could pull them off and adjust the clip location. The project is not for the faint of heart.

One benefit is that going coil damper to coil damper should make the clip groove change equal to the ride height change. It might take a little experimentation but we should be able to get it down so people get the ride height they want on the very first try.
 
I tried the longer (0.250" longer) upper links and could not get below about .45 degrees of total toe in on the back of the car. I was looking for a maximum of 0.2 or so of toe in which can not be achieved with the longer links unless I made longer toe links (which I am not inclined to do). Regretfully, I had all ten black arms cut to the 0.250" longer dimension :(

I've reached a stable configuration. It is-
Air suspension dampers
Stock Tesla coils spring and perches.
0.210" longer upper links
Ride height set to 28 1/4" as measured at the center of the wheel arch to the ground.
 

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I can get those measurements if it would help. I was simply working from stock numbers (measured with the same rims/tires from the very beginning).

As for feel, my target was an M5. The car as it is now is not as stiff as a M5 but feels very planted without that soft floaty edge that comes with air suspension.

I still need to disassemble my P+ spring/dampers and get shock dyno plots for the P+ dampers. I suspect that I will eventually have addition ride height grooves cut in the P+ dampers and swap them out for the standard air dampers currently installed. That is going to have to wait for a bit as I really need to recover from this round with the car. I had those friggin dampers off and on the car five or six times trying to get the ride heights even. Honest, I measured twice and cut once but still had to redo and redo and redo :)