Longest "beta" software ever?

[diplomat33]

The main reason why AP is still "beta" is because it is a work in progress. Tesla is still adding more features to AP and improving AP. And considering that there will probably always be something new to add to AP or something that can be tweaked, AP may be "beta" for a long time. But being "beta" does not diminish what AP is.

 

[neptunesfinest]

I'm still getting phantom braking due to shadows from overpasses. They have quite a lot of work to do before it's no longer beta.

 

[BrandonLive]

It's been redefined so many times the term AutoPilot has little meaning.

I'll rephrase: many of the features Tesla has promised under the general banner of driver assistance are vaporware. Here's some examples, if that helps:

Smart Summon, promised to pull up to your door waaaay back in AP1 days, still hasn't advanced past moving straight forward and backward.

Street lights, stop signs. Promised in AP1 days. Doesn't exist.

Speed limit sign reading. Regressed from AP1, uses a (often wrong) database now. Tesla is quick to point out data-driven autonomous driving is flawed because things like temporary road changes breaks it, but then gives us crummy data speed limits instead of reading actual, sometimes temporary signs like AP1.

The following original autopilot features are now arbitrarily categorized as FSD: lane change, (dumb) summon.

FSD doesn't exist, despite the video shown to the world in 2016 showing a car driving from a home to a office park totally hands-free. Instead, in the intervening years, steering wheel nags have consistently increased.

So... Ok, "autopilot" isn't strictly vaporware, because something with that name exists. But using the term is pretty fair game, even if not pedantic....

That’s all a completely different discussion from whether AutoPilot/AutoSteer being labeled “beta” for years somehow makes it “vaporware”.

You can say that about those specific items, but it does seem like they’re getting closer to at least some becoming a reality. Delays (especially with incremental releases toward the promised goal) are not the same as vaporware.

 

[adam0785]

That’s all a completely different discussion from whether AutoPilot/AutoSteer being labeled “beta” for years somehow makes it “vaporware”.

You can say that about those specific items, but it does seem like they’re getting closer to at least some becoming a reality. Delays (especially with incremental releases toward the promised goal) are not the same as vaporware.

Real world experience doesn't seem to be getting closer to "becoming a reality"

 

[pipestem]

I don't see why Trip Planner is still beta. In my work, we call something beta when we expect to make substantial changes and we don't want to support a documented API, version upgrades, data migration, and we are not charging extra for this feature. It is only for customers that agree to beta terms. If we expect everyone to use a feature, we don't call it beta.

 

[jerry33]

I don't see why Trip Planner is still beta. In my work, we call something beta when we expect to make substantial changes and we don't want to support a documented API, version upgrades, data migration, and we are not charging extra for this feature. It is only for customers that agree to beta terms. If we expect everyone to use a feature, we don't call it beta.

Why not? Google does. And anyway, it's beta because it's lacking in features. Waypoints for one. Route changing for another.

 

[BrandonLive]

Real world experience doesn't seem to be getting closer to "becoming a reality" View attachment 436420

I don’t see your point. The capabilities are obviously getting richer and closer to the vision (Nav on AP was a big step when introduced, it’s gotten better with updates, Smart Summon is in Early Access testing, more coming). Pointing out that it’s not perfect for everyone and needs more work is a great example of why it’s still “beta”, but doesn’t at all justify “vaporware”.

Personally, phantom braking has been extremely rare in my experience (less than 10 in 10 months of near daily usage - some of which were due to odd traffic behavior that probably justified slowing down), and even in those rare cases or the newer (imperfect but improving) behavior of braking for merging traffic it’s gotten better in recent updates as it hits the brakes less hard and switches back to accelerating sooner.

 

[pipestem]

Why not? Google does. And anyway, it's beta because it's lacking in features. Waypoints for one. Route changing for another.

I would not confuse beta status with new features unless product management has determined it is not market viable in which case you should not be charging for it. Tesla is working in the CI/CD space. Trip planner as is - is ok. If Waypoints is buggy but they want feedback, they should call out Waypoints as beta. And while we are at it, I do want route changing... please.

Regardless, calling AP beta might be appropriate given recent problem reports.

 

[North75]

Tesla had been selling AP as"beta" software since the beginning..... Since October 2014. That's now almost 5 years. How long can it possibly stay in this status? Any other companies beat this? What's the longest any software has been in beta mode?

Does the fact that it's labeled beta affect your perceptions of its performance, reliability or usefulness?
i.e. Who cares?

 

[insaneoctane]

Does the fact that it's labeled beta affect your perceptions of its performance, reliability or usefulness?
i.e. Who cares?

I care. Leaving something in "beta" longer than necessary is a cop-out IMO. Feels like they are constantly lowering expectations and liability by saying "Well, it is BETA..."

 

[nvx1977]

I care. Leaving something in "beta" longer than necessary is a cop-out IMO. Feels like they are constantly lowering expectations and liability by saying "Well, it is BETA..."

"longer than necessary" and "for a long time" are very different things. I believe that it is still very necessary to label AP as beta (use at your own risk because it's not perfect yet). Personally I don't care what it's labeled - even "vaporware." I am very familiar with its capabilities and its shortcomings, and I use it appropriately.

 

[pipestem]

Does the fact that it's labeled beta affect your perceptions of its performance, reliability or usefulness?
i.e. Who cares?

yes. You call it beta when you don't want to commit to supporting it over the long haul. It should affect your perception of its durability.

 

[srs5694]

People in this thread seem to have different understandings of what beta software is. Strictly speaking, it's simply software that has not officially been released; however, as some beta software, including beta features in Tesla's cars, is publicly available, that blurs the distinction. Especially in those cases, there are two key distinctions between beta and final-release software; either one can make software beta:

• Known bugs -- Beta software is likely to have known bugs, or more known bugs than the publisher is comfortable with in a final release.
• Missing features -- Beta software may be missing features that the developer wants to be present in the final release version. Note that some definitions say that beta software is feature-complete, by which definition software with missing features is actually in alpha test (or earlier); however, other definitions allow for missing features in beta software.

It's pretty clear that both of these characteristics of beta software exist in some of Tesla's features, particularly Autopilot and FSD. Phantom braking, driving down the median between an exit and the highway, and other such problems are bugs; and Tesla has promised that Autopilot and FSD will do much more than they currently do. Hence, they're beta (or even alpha, by some definitions) features.

There are several online definitions of beta software, such as this one.

Note also that the preceding definitions were developed in the bygone era of software distribution on physical media. The pace of modern software development and distribution blurs the lines between alpha, beta, release candidate (RC), and final-release software. Decades ago, there was a clear transition from beta (or RC) to final-release software: The time when the final master was created for manufacturing and packaging into a box. Today's distribution methods, where software is downloaded from the Internet, makes such a distinction much more arbitrary. Bugs can be fixed and features added with as little or as much fanfare as desired at any point in the process. This blurs the lines between the various stages of software development to the point that they aren't nearly as meaningful as they once were. What's more, today's software is so complex that no program of any size can credibly claim to be bug-free; at best, a program might have no known bugs, but they're almost certainly lurking beneath the surface, waiting to be discovered. Furthermore, with the exception of software that's been abandoned, features are likely to be added in the future. Thus, the characteristics distinguishing beta from final-release software aren't as useful as they once were, and the labeling becomes arbitrary.

 

[BrandonLive]

yes. You call it beta when you don't want to commit to supporting it over the long haul. It should affect your perception of its durability.

That is not an accurate description of why AP is called “beta”. Hell, when you turn it on there’s a message with a paragraph describing exactly why they still call it “beta”.

 

[BrandonLive]

People in this thread seem to have different understandings of what beta software is. Strictly speaking, it's simply software that has not officially been released; however, as some beta software, including beta features in Tesla's cars, is publicly available, that blurs the distinction. Especially in those cases, there are two key distinctions between beta and final-release software; either one can make software beta:

• Known bugs -- Beta software is likely to have known bugs, or more known bugs than the publisher is comfortable with in a final release.
• Missing features -- Beta software may be missing features that the developer wants to be present in the final release version. Note that some definitions say that beta software is feature-complete, by which definition software with missing features is actually in alpha test (or earlier); however, other definitions allow for missing features in beta software.

It's pretty clear that both of these characteristics of beta software exist in some of Tesla's features, particularly Autopilot and FSD. Phantom braking, driving down the median between an exit and the highway, and other such problems are bugs; and Tesla has promised that Autopilot and FSD will do much more than they currently do. Hence, they're beta (or even alpha, by some definitions) features.

There are several online definitions of beta software, such as this one.

Note also that the preceding definitions were developed in the bygone era of software distribution on physical media. The pace of modern software development and distribution blurs the lines between alpha, beta, release candidate (RC), and final-release software. Decades ago, there was a clear transition from beta (or RC) to final-release software: The time when the final master was created for manufacturing and packaging into a box. Today's distribution methods, where software is downloaded from the Internet, makes such a distinction much more arbitrary. Bugs can be fixed and features added with as little or as much fanfare as desired at any point in the process. This blurs the lines between the various stages of software development to the point that they aren't nearly as meaningful as they once were. What's more, today's software is so complex that no program of any size can credibly claim to be bug-free; at best, a program might have no known bugs, but they're almost certainly lurking beneath the surface, waiting to be discovered. Furthermore, with the exception of software that's been abandoned, features are likely to be added in the future. Thus, the characteristics distinguishing beta from final-release software aren't as useful as they once were, and the labeling becomes arbitrary.

There’s a third factor which you missed, “unknown bugs”. Basically, it takes time and usage to validate that you’ve found all the ship-blocking or “recall class” issues that you can before declaring something as shipped.

That said, for software being delivered as a service in the way Tesla is generally doing, the classical terminology is somewhat obsolete. We’re also at a point where a lot of software (and I’m sure Tesla’s is included) is metrics-driven. Beyond bugs, that also means they have metrics, e.g. frequency of manual intervention, accidents, times when AP reports that it was confused, etc.

All that said, Tesla says they use “beta” as just another reminder that AP does not make the car autonomous and that in its current state you must remain vigilant and ready to intervene at all times.

 

[twistedskipper]

Last update, I actually read the disclaimers that came up when I had to re-enable the Autopilot features (autosteer, NoA, etc.). In the disclaimers, they say that the only reason they still call it "beta" is in recognition of the serious consequences if something goes wrong. They say that otherwise, they consider the existing autopilot software no longer in beta.

 

[Kant.Ing]

A medial equipment being beta would give its patients and doctors incorrect result that leads to wrongful treatment. A weapon being beta would put its handlers in a critical position. An aircraft or a spacecraft being beta would not allow any passengers. A feature in a consumer product being beta is simply to say it's still buggy and unreliable (to whatever standards), and users should never consider it's life supporting or life saving (use at own risk).

 

[ElectricLee]

We need to understand the Tesla Beta is:

Master Plan, Part Deux

"It is also important to explain why we refer to Autopilot as "beta". This is not beta software in any normal sense of the word. Every release goes through extensive internal validation before it reaches any customers. It is called beta in order to decrease complacency and indicate that it will continue to improve (Autopilot is always off by default). Once we get to the point where Autopilot is approximately 10 times safer than the US vehicle average, the beta label will be removed."