Lorries purposely trying to trick autopilot?

[atuk]

I have been driving along the M25 today when a lorry (lane 2), who was overtaking another lorry, purposely moved into my lane (lane 3) just as I passed him. The road was dry, straight and wide - he had no reason to move over.

I anticipated that a lorry potentially could upset autopilot so I had my foot ready at the power pedal. And sure enough, it braked.

Do other road users go out of their way to trick our systems? I had to smile at his attempt, but it is not funny and not necessary ... if he did it on purpose of course; otherwise, no problem lol

 

[Alistairuk]

If it's a 3 lane road and he was driving an HGV he shouldn't be in lane 3. Was the road splitting due to a junction or something?

If you're already passed him I wouldn't have thought Autopilot would have been concerned.

 

[atuk]

It was a four lane road so was fine to overtake the slower lorry. I was approaching the pair of them and was not yet alongside but kindof suspected AP could be acting up, but I didn't want to change lane just for the sake of it as mine was free. When I was at the hight of his last axle, he moved inyo my lane by 30cm ... and as I said, from what I could see, there was no reason for him to do so.

Just wondered if they are aware of AP and do this on purpose? Like some people dancing in front of the car to set of sentry?

 

[Mr H]

It was a four lane road so was fine to overtake the slower lorry. I was approaching the pair of them and was not yet alongside but kindof suspected AP could be acting up, but I didn't want to change lane just for the sake of it as mine was free. When I was at the hight of his last axle, he moved inyo my lane by 30cm ... and as I said, from what I could see, there was no reason for him to do so.

Just wondered if they are aware of AP and do this on purpose? Like some people dancing in front of the car to set of sentry?

maybe the other truck moved over first

 

[Billbrown1982]

I very much doubt it. All sorts of reasons. Were you approaching a junction where Lane 1 became an exit? In which case the truck in lane 1 might have indicated to get over into lane 2 and so lane 2 truck moved into 3.


Some drivers do this MILES before the exit...which annoys the hell out of me, but thats a different issue alltogether.

Also, Truck in Lane 2 might have felt he was gaining on something ahead and wanted to get out before approaching.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of really bad truck drivers out there, but I would be VERY surprised if one intentionally did this just to piss you off.

 

[atuk]

He didn't move a complete lane, only about 30cm into my lane, no indicators. It wasn't a scary situation as I was half expecting autopilot to play up in this situation, just noticed it. And yea, he may have had a valid reason for his move, maybe a pothole (yes, contrary to popular belief, there are a few on the M25 ).

Whatever the reason for his move in the end was, it wasn't friendly as I was right next to him

 

[Pagemakers]

It’s not the lorry drivers to blame, it’s the Tesla software engineers for not fixing the problem. My car slammed on the brakes at 80mph passing a lorry the other day. Nothing short of bloody dangerous. This is my 2nd Tesla and this issue is still going on and probably worse than when I purchased my first car 5 years ago.

I have spent hours with Tesla support. Provided countless time-stamped videos of the problem happening and still nothing gets fixed.

I can only assume that after 5 years it’s un-fixable.

 

[Irata]

I guess the car can't currently predict the lorry will stop at 30cm over, so if the predicted trajectory is a collision then the car needs to take action (if autonomous braking is enabled). It could make the decision earlier and smoother, but maybe that increases the incidents.

I guess it would be good if the car also understood the impact risk from behind, it has no rear radar unfortunately. Then it takes the action of least risk.

These risk decisions are going to be vital with FSD. We make these decisions all the time (often from years of driving experience) and can guess the lorry isn't going to continue veering out of lane. Or, take our chances and mostly get lucky.

It's a complex problem.

But if other drivers are gaming it, that's nasty.

 

[Pagemakers]

It’s a bug in the software.

In the U.K. drive your car MANUALLY in the fast lane of any motorway. Look at the screen as you pass a high sided lorry in the slow lane.... as you pass it, it momentarily jumps from the slow lane to the middle lane and back again. Then imagine if autopilot was engaged and you were changing from the fast lane to the middle lane -if autopilot was engaged... phantom braking and auto swerve back into the fast lane all at high speed.

The same thing happens sometimes when you pass a high sided lorry if you are in the middle lane and the lorry is in the slow lane. Sometimes (much less often than in the first case) the lorry will jump into your lane - if autopilot was engaged... phantom braking.

 

[Irata]

I do see the picture glitch, but I don't experience the braking each time it does, so I am not sure it's always the same issue. To me, most of the times that's just a graphics rendering glitch, happens on video games all the time. I see a slight rendering issue at the same time, briefing seeing through the displayed vehicle for example.

However, I do experience the braking when the lorry drifts over.

But absolutely, it's very unnerving then it does.

 

[Pagemakers]

Try purposely changing lanes in the situations I described and you’ll see it’s not a graphical glitch. If is far deeper rooted than that.

Obviously autopilot needs to be engaged in these situations.

 

[Peteski]

Do other road users go out of their way to trick our systems?

Not in my experience over the last 3 years. Talking to non-Tesla owners they usually over-estimate AP's ability or simply don't have any clue it even exists.

 

[Irata]

Try purposely changing lanes in the situations I described and you’ll see it’s not a graphical glitch. If is far deeper rooted than that.

Obviously autopilot needs to be engaged in these situations.

I'm sure you are right. However, I still think there is more than one issue here. Last week on the motorway (I am on the motorway everyday) I drove through the middle of a lorry according to the display and it didn't brake or warn.

 

[Limey]

Not a chance they are doing this. They know the dangers of driving something so large and heavy, they wouldn't risk everything to play games.

 

[adsheff]

I find a lot of lorry drivers struggle to keep their steeds going in a straight line. Usually because they are playing on their phones or something.

 

[MrBadger]

They know the dangers of driving something so large and heavy, they wouldn't risk everything to play games.

So what do they treat tailgating through a 50 zone as? Its not like they could be using me for drafting.

 

[atuk]

Not a chance they are doing this. They know the dangers of driving something so large and heavy, they wouldn't risk everything to play games.

I do respectfully disagree on that one. As always, it only takes a few that behave badly to tarnish the reputation of the bunch. Sure, the majority are good, responsible guys ... but the few that are not, are seriously dangerous (or at least egoistical to a level that they don't care about anyone else).

These idiots are aware of what they are driving, which is why they think they are the king of the road.
If they want to change lane, they will (yes, they indicate; and no, they wouldn't do it if you are already next to them ... but if there is space, they will, and you have to brake).
If they are 1mph faster than another truck, they will race them for miles even if they have to leave at the exit after completing this maneuver.
Like mentioned above, if there is a 50 limit, you do 51 due to these stealth speed cameras and they want to do 52 ... they will be up your arse, fact. If you see a 40t beast filling all your mirrors to an extend you only see half of that SCANIA logo, that's simply stupid.

I know I am by no means perfect, and there may well be posts out there about "that idiot that did this or that" about me ... but I never, ever knowingly obstruct anyone else. If I change lane because I want to overtake someone, I speed up so the guy coming along in that lane doesn't have to break. Actually, there are some countries in Europe where it is a motoring offence if your maneuver causes another driver to take action (having to break or take avoiding action).

 

[ACarneiro]

And everyone knows that for an n-lane motorway there will always be n-1 lorries side by side, not giving a *sugar* about the miles of traffic behind them.
I don’t think they’re generally professional nor considerate and I wish we could have more freight by rail, lorries are the bane of the public motorway system.

 

[speedyranger74]

In both sides are good and bad drivers.
About some comments: remember, hgv drivers know how to drive a lorry and the car... others just the car.
Even don't believe, but 1 mph make the difference on the final: to be unloaded/loaded... and more.
Back to question of the OP: pretty sure the truck on first lane is moved over, and the truck on second lane is moved too to avoid an accident... but without put in danger you(because nothingis happened).

 

[Billbrown1982]

As a lorry driver, I will say that when you've got the Transport department breathing down your neck to get to that next destination to a tight schedule, yes, you tend to overtake even if its only gaining you 1mph.

Also something that happens quite often is you get stuck behind another truck in the slow lane, on an uphill stretch and he slows down dramatically (because he's heavy or his truck is knackered) so you move out for the overtake.

Then you get past the uphill stretch and he speeds up, keeping you stuck out in that second lane, so you end up running with him until the next hill.

That winds me up no end - but it is part of the "experience" of being a driver I suppose.

I won't even bore you with the amount of the stories I have, like trundling along in the left hand lane when a car overtakes me at 70 and comes across the front of me so close it makes my emergency brakes slam on, or when a car is coming down the slip road to join the carraigeway, doesn't pay any attention that I'm there until the very end and then slams on so they are up the side of me, instead of keeping the acceleration going and fitting in nicely infront of me.

Good and Bad drivers on both sides for sure.