Losing enthusiasm for Model 3

[mkspeedr]

I can understand your perspective but my perspective is 180. My enthusiasm is increasing.

The competitors are struggling to produce something comparable to the 6 year old model S. I love buying new cars but even with the long in the tooth model S is my favorite car. I like it so much I ordered an P100D X last weekend. My lease will probably expire before a real competitor for the X arrives.

The model 3 is great. The thread where the model 3 kicked butt at Laguna Seca is awesome. The range - the super charger network - the center display. I think my problem is...I am losing enthusiasm in the other manufactures.

Yes, I know I sound like a fan boy but last weekend my options for testing driving an electric SUV was one vehicle - the model X.

 

[AustinPowers]

My enthusiasm has also long gone by now. I am a day one reservationist and am looking at a delivery estimate of (by now) "Early 2019". And that is only if there are no more hiccups.
I still haven't cancelled, but I am getting more annoyed every day, and the more alternatives become available over here, the less inclined I am to go through with buying a Model 3.
Did I mention the Jaguar i-Pace is out now? I always thought I would be driving circles around that one, as well as other competitors, in my Model 3. Appears to be the other way round eventually.
As long as there is not one Model 3 on the European continent to be seen/test driven, it is still very much vaporware to me. What use is it to me that customers in the US get theirs and are happy with it? I couldn't care less. I gave Tesla my money two years ago, and all I got in return is one delivery estimate push back after the other! Thanks Elon.

 

[AustinPowers]

Another negative is very narrow front seats. And no charging network.

GM doesn't produce a lot of these, and yet they are readily available. Whatever the reason, people aren't buying them.

And over here, people are queuing to buy one, yet GM won't sell them at all. What an idiocy!

 

[IdaX]

GM has brought a full-fledged long-range EV to market, and seems to have no shortage of them available.
Now, I see announcements of the Hyundai Kona EV and Kia Niro EV. Both of those would fit my needs fine, and I find them more aesthetically pleasing that the somewhat awkward-looking Bolt.

If only any of them had an effective nationwide fast-charging network ...

 

[WileyTheMan]

Completely understandable, OP. And if you don't go with the Model 3, at least you're sticking with EV and that's important.

Tesla isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[vinnie97]

As you admitted, you didn't bother reserving on day #1. Imagine the frustration for some of us who did stand in line (and I didn't do so because I want something shiny and new, it was more due to the fact that I don't want to be hitched to the oil cartel and its volatility any longer than I have to). It may still be early, but I am already losing faith in the March-May estimate.

 

[suwaneedad]

OP, great comments. What you're underscoring is that the use case for all reservationists isn't being met by the Model 3 available today (LR+PUP). As I look back on my EV journey to date, I hungrily paid sticker to early adopt the LEAF in Atlanta...a move that was proven to be a poor one (financially) about a year later as Nissan poured lease deals on LEAF into Atlanta which enabled drivers to have the car free of charge thanks to a $5k state income tax credit which benefited the lessee (24mos at $199/mo was fully absorbed by the $5k state income tax credit). My sticker price LEAF won't be free to me until I put 100k miles on it (28k to go!). Model S I could not justify the cost, and watched enviously as my friends bought them (and traded up into newer versions of S). And then the magical day when I reserved Model 3, high from the reveal and stunned by the 220 mile promise for $35k. Two years pass, and fortunately I'm at a point where I'm willing to stomach the $52k Model 3 reality, albeit happily so because of the 310 mile LR range. My use case revolves around maximum range, having been tethered to Atlanta by my LEAF for 6.25 years (and counting). I cringe every time I buy gas for my wife's ICE as we go on road trips. Once my $52k 3 arrives in a few weeks, I'll never do an ICE road trip again. Period. So my use case is very much satisfied by what Tesla has created (and the timeline of rollout). But I totally get that your use case has not been satisfied, and certainly not on the timeline that Tesla laid out up front. I take pleasure from being a part of the EV revolution, and yes that has come at a cost to me financially. But it is one obviously that I'm willing to absorb. I want to be a part of the death of ICE transport as our default, I want to reward Tesla's innovation where legacy incumbents have utterly failed us, etc. Granted, nearly all of my friends believe that I am insane. Which is, of course, fine.

 

[lapolak]

Since I see the Bolt mentioned a lot, I'll post my experience with it since my best friend leased a Bolt in July 2017 and I've spent a lot of time in his car both as a passenger and driver (borrowed his car many times and generally hang out with him on a daily basis so I am in the car quite a lot).

I do actually like it as a car for driving daily. However, there are some issues (as with every car):

1) The seats are very uncomfortable. He leased a base package so maybe it is possible to upgrade the seats (I don't know), but the base seats are SO THIN, NARROW and with LITTLE support. And I mean narrow; they only seem to fit people with slimmer frames.

2) Charging: As mentioned above, there is no charging network for attempting long range trips. The Bolt gets an EPA rating of 238 miles, which is good for city driving... but lackluster for single day long distance. My friend did learn that Walmarts have fast chargers in their parking lots for customers, but the fast charge is much slower than a Tesla Super Charger.

3) Exterior and Interior Aesthetics: While the exterior did grow on me, it's the Bolt is not a "good looking" car. In my own personal opinion, the interior is even more basic looking than the Model 3. I sat in my co-worker's model 3, and while I appreciated the simple design... I questioned (to my self) whether I liked the design (as I'm used to driving used luxury cars that have busier / flashier interiors). I determined that I do like the design of the Model 3 interior and that it works for the Model 3 since its aiming to be different. I've gotten bored of BMW interiors... which is what I'm coming from... I would even argue that BMW interiors are plain looking unless you're buying brand new, fully spec'ed flagships which aren't in the same class as the 3-series and Model 3. But the materials in a car like the BMW 3-series seemed a bit higher quality.

The interior on the base level Bolt was much more plain. It has no special trim anywhere, the plastic looks cheap, and the seats look cheap in addition to being uncomfortable. I did like the touch screen and the fact that it is Apple Car Play / Android Auto enabled.

Obviously, the Model 3 is aiming to take on the BMW 3-Series, while I don't think the Bolt was aimed at competing with popular entry-level luxury cars. And there are a few things about the Model 3 that I don't like (the quality of the seats and wood don't seem to be on-par to the 3-Series, but I may have had too little time to truly get a sense of the interior quality).

4) Quality: This is probably my most important point. So-far, the my impression of the Bolt is that it may have questionable quality. Within 2 months, the charging port on my friend's Bolt experienced an electrical short with an internal charging component. We were walking out of his house when we smelled smoke and noticed his car wasn't charging. The local Chevy dealer gave him a rental and took about a week to determine the issue and fix it. They stated that this seemed to be a unique problem as the mechanics did not see a related entry in their database and had to take apart the charging system to discover the short.

They did fix it and so far he has not experienced any other problems. I realize that he may have gotten a troublesome car, but the situation did not inspire confidence in the vehicle. We literally saw light smoke and smelled something burning... and that is not what you want to see in an electric car.

To be fair, Tesla's seem to be troublesome at times as well. Which is my concern over buying a 1st generation Model 3. There are a lot of anecdotal accounts of Model 3 owners experiencing issues, along with many posts about how great the car is. So it is a risk... a risk that I am still debating.

The Bolt does drive well, and I seriously considered leasing one (there are good deals in Los Angeles) while putting off my Model 3 for a few years so that Tesla can work out the Kinks. But I determined that I'd rather just get the Model 3 and deal with any problems as leasing is expensive in its own way -- you pay quite a few grand to basically rent a car -- and I'm biased towards Tesla since i've always wanted one.

I just asked him and my friend says he "loves" the Bolt. But he did recently say that if he could afford it, he'd get the Model 3 over the Bolt.

 

[outdoors]

Secondly, we're nowhere near the $35,000 real-world price that was promised, and it looks like it's going to be a long time until that's the case.

One of the better I am disappointed OP pieces. Not really blowback, but there was no promise.

These so called promises seem to be a big misconception that people want to read into this whole conundrum. Maybe a Stockholm type of syndrome. I have heard it many times. It's not true, but I am starting to believe X.

Tesla promised us cars @ 35k. Nope. Starting at. Just like every other manufacturer.
Tesla will make cars in such a way that it will try to make more people get the tax break. Not said, but would be nice
Tesla will get cars to line waiters first. Nope. Well documented policy.
Tesla will give line waiters a gift of real value. No again. Dreams of grandeur yes. Could be much less however.

I have no doubt that the 35k car will come in time. How many are produced or reservations will be had exactly at base? My guess few. Never ordered a base model of anything, and not sure I know anyone that didn't buy the floor mats with the companies that charged for them back in the day.

People can fault Tesla on the 35k and say whatever. Then they should also fault computer manufacturers that list prices with the slowest processors, and minimal RAM. House manufactures that say starting at. Only to find one house of 100 in a subdivision that will be specd at that price. Cruise operators that market a cabin in the steerage near the boiler of the ship. The list is endless so I find it a less than valid thought. It feels good. People need something to be disappointed about after someone let the air out the balloons they were holding.

The Bolt. It is all about the infrastructure. I cannot be content with a car that I have to drive around in a tiny area(box). Unfortunately maybe the way where I live people have become trained to need big gas tanks or in EV world long range. True it is not really necessary when most people look at driving needs. When I do travel long distances I need the infrastructure, and time is not on my side with the Bolt. Cross Country travel could take days longer. Last couple barbs on the Bolt. Kids don't point at it and say cool. Don't see the soccer mom driver mouth the words Bolt as I drive by. Happened in the S today.

Tesla had a decision to make. Make cars for customers to keep customers for life by making the car the customer wanted while ignoring profitability. Or to make cars to ensure their viability for the future to further their mission.

Tesla chose the latter. People just don't get that yet because it doesn't make anyone feel better. Many disappointments yes, but for each reservation canceled someone steps up to fill that void. Tesla knows it. I just hope they know that the clock is ticking on cool factor and the niche that they hold is starting to not be so nichey.

I have to say the recent comments by either reservation cancelers and people that are bummed have a sense of calm about them lately. I agree if we see more push back on dates the temperature of the threads might heat up a bit.

 

[hitchhiker]

My enthusiasm is waning in that my enthusiasm was pushing me toward a solution that I probably normally wouldn't have chosen... I generally don't buy $50k cars. But I really want to support the leader in this space that is changing the conversation and changing the industry... and I love their cars. But with the delays, I might wait for something that makes financial sense. That might mean waiting for the $35k version, or it might mean buying some other EV when it becomes available.

The Hyundai Kona EV is a really great idea. Its not available yet, but if it were available at a price comparable to their ICE version i'd buy it in a second. I much prefer hatchbacks and crossovers to sedans. But in general that calls out the real problems... all these "announced" alternatives don't actually exist. There's so many in the realm of "we'll have something in 2020 or 2022!!!" that I mostly don't care any more unless its actually a shipping product I can buy.

The Bolt is compelling in some ways, but not in others. I sort of like the styling. But I sat in one, and the narrow seat makes it feel uncomfortable and cramped. The interior feels cheap. I had a leaf for 3 years, and I loved it -- it felt like a quality car to me. The Bolt does not. It feels like a cheap econobox form Chevy. And let's face it -- we're annoyed with Tesla for shipping only 3x as many cars as Chevy is shipping. It sort of puts their production problems in perspective.

...so I might get the tesla when its my turn, or I might see what else is available then.. or I might hold out for one of the several 3-wheel $10k cars that are being developed. We'll see. But what was an automatic "PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY!" response six months ago to the Model 3 is now a careful "I'll evaluate and spend my money wisely" response. They've lost their ability for enthusiasm to win out over reason.

 

[igotzzoom]

With all due respect to the commenters here that say, "If you can't wait, just buy a Model S/X!" Not all of us make mid-high six-figure incomes. Even at around $50,000, the Model 3 would be a big financial sacrifice and by far the most expensive car I've ever bought. Not everyone can just waltz in and plunk down six figures without a care.

 

[Az_Rael]

Is this a new option? To my knowledge, early Bolts had no fast charge capability at all, not even a paid option.

As far as I know, they have always offered the option. We were talking about it over on the Volt forums once the spec sheet got released with the costs. I followed the Bolt release fairly closely as I owned a Volt and was considering one before I moved to Tesla.

I am not sure where the no fast charging info comes from, honestly, even though I have seen it here several times. There must be an article or something out there with that info. Or maybe dealers weren't ordering cars that way for their lots and telling people the option didn't exist. Who knows.

 

[Eclectic]

I see tons of Bolts around here in SoCal. I've heard nothing glaringly negative about the driving experience of the Bolt. If there's any resistance to it, it's for the styling.

Edmunds currently has a Bolt and a Model 3 in its long term test stable. It's interesting to watch the updates come in, as the Bolt seems to impress them quite a bit on the performance measures while they hate the seats and interior quality. They haven't had the Model 3 very long, but they have significant issues with it too. So overall, they both seem to have appeal based on what you're looking for. The Bolt is obviously available right now at the $35k price range, so that's a big consideration for many. And the fact that they were able to get over 330 miles on the Bolt seems to show that the lack of superchargers is a bit overstated as a criticism.

 

[206er]

Another negative is very narrow front seats. And no charging network.

GM doesn't produce a lot of these, and yet they are readily available. Whatever the reason, people aren't buying them.

Uh, they're ugly/weirdmobile/resemble a go kart (by design)...?

 

[igotzzoom]

Uh, they're ugly/weirdmobile/resemble a go kart (by design)...?

I was thinking more the "Little Tikes" car.

 

[206er]

I definitely want Tesla to succeed and was SOOOO excited to stand in line to reserve a sight unseen $35k Tesla on a cold 3/31/2016 Seattle morning. Over time, I the delays and underwhelming reveals wore on me, and found the $49k+ version of the Model 3 to be underwhelming after getting to spend a few hours with one. Cancelled, and now feel kinda silly for having lined up outside of a store to reserve the car... lesson learned!

 

[206er]

I was thinking more the "Little Tikes" car.

Woz!?

 

[dhrivnak]

I know I'm probably going to get plenty of blowback on this post, but I don't really care. I admit that I was very excited and passionate when I originally put in my deposit online night of the reveal in 2016. That was now nearly two years ago. Since then, GM has brought a full-fledged long-range EV to market, and seems to have no shortage of them available. Yes, I know comparing the Bolt and Model 3 is an apples and oranges comparison. I get it.

Secondly, we're nowhere near the $35,000 real-world price that was promised, and it looks like it's going to be a long time until that's the case.

Thirdly, the Model 3 will soon no longer be the only game in town in terms of a reasonably affordable long-range (200+ mile) EV. It ceased to be that when the Bolt came out. At this point, I'm not asking for a refund, but I'm honestly not sure what I'm going to do when I finally do get my configuration invite. At this point, I'm not in critical need of a third vehicle in the household. I sold one of my other ICE cars in anticipation of the Model 3, in retrospect, somewhat naïvely thinking I would get it "any day now."

Now, I see announcements of the Hyundai Kona EV and Kia Niro EV. Both of those would fit my needs fine, and I find them more aesthetically pleasing that the somewhat awkward-looking Bolt. However, even my initial revulsion to the Bolt's styling has subdued somewhat. I no longer "hate" it. I still think it's awkward-looking, but I'm to the point where I'd consider it as a daily driver, regardless of styling.

I know none of the vehicles I've mentioned have that status or performance of the Model 3. But I'm to the point where I no longer care about having the "newest, shiniest" thing on the road. If I wanted that, I should have stood in line first day, which I didn't. But considering all of the quality issues I've heard about on the early-run models, I'm not sure I would have wanted one. I'm going to give it until mid-summer 2018 to see if I get my invite. If August '18 comes and goes and still no invite, at that point, I think I'm probably going to ask for my money back.

I'm still a believer in Tesla's mission and what Elon is doing advancing technology in multiple industries. However, I think his showmanship gets him in trouble sometimes in terms of over-promising and under-delivering. I wish he'd be a little more realistic in the timeline goals he announces.

While I hear you we decided to pass on the other EVs because while can be a great secondary car they can’t be a primary car. No one but Tesla put in a charging network that enables long distance travel. My sister is 410 miles north with no CHAdeMO or CCS chargers but there are now 3 SuperChargers and two opportunities for destination charging. So a Bolt or a Leaf cannot get me there. My in laws are 640 miles to the south. With only two CHAdeMO /CCS stations I do not see how to make it work with a nonTesla EV. But with 5 SuperChargers I can do the trip in a Tesla. I no longer want to burn gasoline. Now that I have learned how bad my pollution can be, I want to change.

 

[SteveG3]

I know I'm probably going to get plenty of blowback on this post, but I don't really care. I admit that I was very excited and passionate when I originally put in my deposit online night of the reveal in 2016. That was now nearly two years ago. Since then, GM has brought a full-fledged long-range EV to market, and seems to have no shortage of them available. Yes, I know comparing the Bolt and Model 3 is an apples and oranges comparison. I get it.

Secondly, we're nowhere near the $35,000 real-world price that was promised, and it looks like it's going to be a long time until that's the case.

Thirdly, the Model 3 will soon no longer be the only game in town in terms of a reasonably affordable long-range (200+ mile) EV. It ceased to be that when the Bolt came out. At this point, I'm not asking for a refund, but I'm honestly not sure what I'm going to do when I finally do get my configuration invite. At this point, I'm not in critical need of a third vehicle in the household. I sold one of my other ICE cars in anticipation of the Model 3, in retrospect, somewhat naïvely thinking I would get it "any day now."

Now, I see announcements of the Hyundai Kona EV and Kia Niro EV. Both of those would fit my needs fine, and I find them more aesthetically pleasing that the somewhat awkward-looking Bolt. However, even my initial revulsion to the Bolt's styling has subdued somewhat. I no longer "hate" it. I still think it's awkward-looking, but I'm to the point where I'd consider it as a daily driver, regardless of styling.

I know none of the vehicles I've mentioned have that status or performance of the Model 3. But I'm to the point where I no longer care about having the "newest, shiniest" thing on the road. If I wanted that, I should have stood in line first day, which I didn't. But considering all of the quality issues I've heard about on the early-run models, I'm not sure I would have wanted one. I'm going to give it until mid-summer 2018 to see if I get my invite. If August '18 comes and goes and still no invite, at that point, I think I'm probably going to ask for my money back.

I'm still a believer in Tesla's mission and what Elon is doing advancing technology in multiple industries. However, I think his showmanship gets him in trouble sometimes in terms of over-promising and under-delivering. I wish he'd be a little more realistic in the timeline goals he announces.

I feel the waiting too. I guess part of the equation is how long you tend to keep a car. If that’s only 2-3 years, an extra 8 months wait is a much bigger factor than if you plan to keep the car a decade.

fwiw, Tesla production is, and has been, making more 3s than Chevy is making Bolts. I’m quite confident that by the time the Kona and Niro arrive in the US, Tesla will be making more than 3X as many Model 3s than those 3 cars combined.

Tesla may be 6-8 months behind in ramping Model 3 production, but every other global automaker on the planet is several years behind Tesla in ramping up battery production to allow for the kind of volume the Model 3 will have later this year.

 

[seattlite2004]

The longer I wait the more excited I get about the AWD and performance Model 3 and of course the Porsche Mission E. Come on...its a Porsche...it's an EV...what's not to get excited about. Yeah...no supercharger network for the Mission E....but it is CCS and chargers are out there and numbers are growing.