M3 AWD LR Non P Vbox run(S)

[AlanSubie4Life]

It would hardly be the first time Elon tweeted something that turned out to be.... at most polite...exceedingly exaggerated.




That's a supply issue though since they had a 3rd party making the spoilers and badges and weren't getting them in sufficient quantity/quality for a long time, so after-delivery install was the only option.



They really wouldn't though- since they could always just use extra P-spec PN motors for AWD cars if there's a surplus.

Which, allegedly, they already do anyway right?

But it also means having a different PN makes it simple to handle replacement parts in the future without needing a secondary, secret, provides-0-benefit system for doing so.





...why?

Instead they just slap on the PN for P motors on those that passed P testing, and the PN for AWD/RWD motors on those that do not.

Doing anything by serial is more work, harder to deal with, and doesn't help in any way.




Now sub "part number" for serial # and that remains true, without adding a second, totally pointless, level of abstraction.



Serial # can be useful info if, say, you realize you had a defective setting on your assembly line between dates X and Y, or a bad batch of capacitors or something between some dates, to figure out which parts might have a problem later.

it's a crap way to do supply chain/repair/replacement part tracking though. Worse in every way and for no benefit.

(by all means if there IS some benefit you can't already get just using PNs for this stuff- let me know- but we've been debating this for a long time now and nobody's come up with any)

Yeah, we'll probably won't know for sure for quite some time, if ever. In any case, it's pretty likely that at least some (maybe even all) AWD cars have motors that are capable of P-level performance.

* Anecdotally, my P motor appears to be from the bottom of the P bin, as power is pulled (unless I'm in track mode) at 92% SoC. So it may be less efficient than some P motors. As I said earlier, maybe it's an AWD motor! (Hopefully it's just a software issue, one of these days I'll check again.)

 

[qwertzy]

Anyone know the 5-60 mph?

 

[SleeperService]

Anyone know the 5-60 mph?

3.075 seconds when I measured a few weeks ago on 2019.12.1.2 @ 90% SOC.

edit: ...of course, I just realized that this is for the "non-P" discussion. My number is irrelevant, as I have a P. I'll leave it here as a mea culpa though.

 

[MagnusMako]

I'm glad you got to put that Dragy to some good use @phantasms. And atleast we were able to do some even comparisons by using the same measurement device. I managed to do some more runs with it last night and broke my previous record. 0-60 came in at 4.18 seconds. I think that's about as good as she's gonna get suffice any further software improvements or weight savings mods. Cheers.

 

[Knightshade]

I managed to do some more runs with it last night and broke my previous record. 0-60 came in at 4.18 seconds.

Hey- thanks for posting the run data... any chance of seeing what it looks like up to 70?

I've been keeping a chart for comparing to various other cars mag-tested results and 30-50 and 50-70 are the most common passing times...thanks to the Tesla being a 1-speed one should be able to just take the 0-70 time minus the 0-50 time and get an accurate 50-70.... last data I've got, back when 0-60 was 4.26 with rollout and 4.55 without it, was 2.06 seconds...I'd expect yours is going to be better, as your 30-50 is a tenth better than what I had from that data (1.4 vs 1.5)

 

[MagnusMako]

Great question. I wish the Dragy displayed more data intervals, but unfortunately what you see is what you get. I'm sure the data is there, they're just not showing it in the app. Maybe in a future update they could add more intervals and/or up to 70.

 

[Knightshade]

Great question. I wish the Dragy displayed more data intervals, but unfortunately what you see is what you get. I'm sure the data is there, they're just not showing it in the app. Maybe in a future update they could add more intervals and/or up to 70.

I know I've seen higher speed values in the past... possibly it was from Draggy recording during a 1/4 mile run though?

EDIT: Nevermind-- it was a vbox that got the higher speed data for 30-50/50-70 info

AWD 4.55s 0-60, 4.26s w/ 1 foot rollout (VBOX Sport)


THAT said- I do still wonder if Draggy can get this data on a longer run as Vbox does

 

[TwoK4drSi]

I'm glad you got to put that Dragy to some good use @phantasms. And atleast we were able to do some even comparisons by using the same measurement device. I managed to do some more runs with it last night and broke my previous record. 0-60 came in at 4.18 seconds. I think that's about as good as she's gonna get suffice any further software improvements or weight savings mods. Cheers.

View attachment 417355

What wheels did you have on the car?

 

[MagnusMako]

What wheels did you have on the car?

Stock 18's with the aero caps. 9.4k miles with 5/32" tread left on the back tires, 7/32" left on the front. SoC was at 89% iirc.

 

[phantasms]

Nice run!

I’m going to have to put my Aeros on and find a -0.99 slope.

Thanks again for the lend!

Best,
Gene

 

[MagnusMako]

I know I've seen higher speed values in the past... possibly it was from Draggy recording during a 1/4 mile run though?

EDIT: Nevermind-- it was a vbox that got the higher speed data for 30-50/50-70 info

AWD 4.55s 0-60, 4.26s w/ 1 foot rollout (VBOX Sport)


THAT said- I do still wonder if Draggy can get this data on a longer run as Vbox does

Well it turns out I was mistaken. The app actually does have custom metrics that I just didn't notice the button for. Went out and did some more runs and here was my best one. It just doesn't say "verified" on the custom one's but surely it is since it made it to the 1/8th mile verified. If you subtract the 0-70 from the 0-50 you get 1.82 seconds. 5-60 shows as 3.95 seconds. You can ignore the 1/4 mile time as I had already slowed down.

Nice run!

I’m going to have to put my Aeros on and find a -0.99 slope.

Thanks again for the lend!

Best,
Gene

I should mention this latest 0-60 was on a +0.50 slope.

 

[Knightshade]

Huh...thanks for the data!

Previous data was:
30-70 3.56s
50-70 2.06s
30-50 1.5s

(on a 4.26 run with rollout, 4.55 without- yours is 4.18 without rollout I assume? (since post 5% bump you've gotten just under 4 with it?)

Your data shows

30-70 3.21s
50-70 1.82s
30-50 1.39s

So better across the board.



Some contrast to ICE cars from a previous post I made to put those passing #s in context-(all #s from major car mags like Car and Driver and such, have links if you need em)

2015 GT-R- 30-50? 3.8 seconds. Slower than the AWD Model 3 goes 30-70. GT-R 50-70? 3.1 seconds.

Porsche 911 Turbo S. The 50-70? 2.5.

McLaren 570S. 50-70 in...2.7

Audi R8 V10- 50-70 in 2.4

ZR-1 Corvette 30-50 in 1.9, 50-70 in 2.3

Porsche GT2 that costs $350,000? 30-50 2.0, 50-70? Also 2.0 Very quick for a supercar. Slower than an AWD Model 3.


BTW- up through 2015 at least the quickest "passing" car ever tested was-2015 Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4 and a 2015 Vette Z06 (tie)

To the Extreme: The Quickest, Slowest, Thirstiest, Lightest—and Much More—Cars We Tested This Year

3.9 adding the 30-50 and 50-70 times together.

The AWD model 3 does that in 3.21



To be fair- the 0-60 on all of those beats the AWD Model 3 (even the P3 in all cases except the Audi which is a tie)- Moral of the story? Downshifting is SLOW.

 

[afty]

Motor Trend recently tested a LR AWD non-Performance Model 3 and got very similar numbers to the ones in this thread:

0-60 4.0 s
1/4-mile 12.5 s at 113.1 mph
45-65 passing: 1.7 s (from this comparo)

 

[Daniel in SD]

Moral of the story? Downshifting is SLOW.

Pretty sure all those numbers are top gear acceleration so there is no downshifting. To be fair you’d have to find the numbers when the car is not in manual shifting mode.

 

[Knightshade]

Pretty sure all those numbers are top gear acceleration so there is no downshifting. To be fair you’d have to find the numbers when the car is not in manual shifting mode.

Pretty sure they all begin in top gear- but automatics are allowed to downshift (it's among the reasons autos almost invariable crush manuals in such testing)


Tons of examples here comparing the passing #s on manuals vs autos on various performance cars-

Why does the top gear acceleration of manual vs. automatic cars differ so much according to Car and Driver? : cars


All of the autos, slower than the AWD Model 3 (let alone the P3)- due to shifting gears being slow.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Pretty sure they all begin in top gear- but automatics are allowed to downshift (it's among the reasons autos almost invariable crush manuals in such testing)

Modern automatics on high performance cars have manual modes which will not downshift. There is no way a Nissan GT-R goes 30-50 in 3.8s unless it's in manual mode in 6th gear.

 

[MagnusMako]

Huh...thanks for the data!

(on a 4.26 run with rollout, 4.55 without- yours is 4.18 without rollout I assume? (since post 5% bump you've gotten just under 4 with it?)

Yes and yes. I also attached the screenshot showing the run details. With rollout came out to 3.97 seconds. This appears on par with Motor Trends recent testing that afty mentioned as well, as they test with rollout and got 4.0 seconds.

 

[Knightshade]

Modern automatics on high performance cars have manual modes which will not downshift. There is no way a Nissan GT-R goes 30-50 in 3.8s unless it's in manual mode in 6th gear.

Nope, they allow it to downshift. It really is that slow doing so-

Honestly none of the manual vs auto numbers in the link I provided would make any sense otherwise....the manuals are all 3-5 times slower, and that includes on many cars where automatics have a "manual" mode- they don't use it in testing.

Bold added below where relevant-

"We also perform two acceleration tests, from 30 to 50 mph and from 50 to 70, in a vehicle's highest gear.

In vehicles with manual transmissions, this test measures how well a car's gearing matches the torque curve of its engine.

With automatics, the test begins in top gear and then the car downshifts automatically under hard acceleration.

This provides information about transmission responsiveness and actual passing times, but any comparison of results between manuals and automatics is meaningless. "

 

[Daniel in SD]

Nope, they allow it to downshift. It really is that slow doing so-

I guess so! The GT-R's 30-50 time being slower than 50-70 must be an artifact of the transmission while I think might only be able to shift quickly between odd and even gears. Anyway the 30-70 acceleration feels great

 

[MagnusMako]

Here is my best official time slip from out at Little River Dragway earlier tonight. SoC was at 85% because this track is quite far away from any charging stations (there's one destination charger like 25 miles away). 12.37 @ 113.92 mph. I got it on Teslacam as well that I'll put on YouTube later. Had two other runs against modded Mustang GT's who each fell victim. Final run was my best and nobody wanted to pull up next to me. Heard some guys in the mustang group later say "you gone let that Tesla beat'cha like that?"