M3 MR vs Chevy Bolt (energy consumption)

[AlanSubie4Life]

The EPA rating doesn't include the energy consumed when pre-heating the cabin. It's the same with a fossil car, the MPG number represents the mileage for specific drive cycles that don't include warming the engine/cabin up.

Sure. I said this.

Our Long Range Model 3 is one week shy of its 1 year birthday and it's lifetime average consumption is 236Wh/mile. It's driven mostly normally with the flow of traffic and we don't hesitate to use the heater and A/C to maintain a comfy cabin.

It's fine to quote your in-car efficiency 236Wh/mi number. It's a great result; the RWD LR Model 3 has the most efficient EV drivetrain and aero profile on the road today (other than the SR versions and the Hyundai Ioniq (which is in a totally different class and runs unsafe tires)). I imagine your wall-to-wheel number is about 300-350Wh/mi, depending on whether you preheat.

 

[seattlite2004]

Does the Model 3's consumption numbers account for HVAC, heated seats, rear window defogger/defroster, etc. usage?

 

[mswlogo]

Does the Model 3's consumption numbers account for HVAC, heated seats, rear window defogger/defroster, etc. usage?

Yes, if it’s in Drive. No, if it’s in Park.

Pre-Heat cabin or battery will send your real usage through the roof. I never do it. Car heats up instantly and I can actually drive the car accident free with limited regen.

I’m getting 270 wh/mi Winter and 230 wh/mi which is very good. So average is around 250 wh/mi

Now if I factor in charging inefficiency it comes to 250 / 92% I’m at 271 wh/mi

I’m gonna put a watt hour meter on the Wall Connector. You get them for $20 on Amazon.

At my current electricity rate and gasoline rates that works out to the same as an ICE that gets 40 mpg (mixed). Not that great IMHO.

It is getting better though thanks to our fearful leader in Washington cause gas prices are going up. Unfortunately I just lost a Tesla or two in my retirement funds.

 

[StealthP3D]

At my current electricity rate and gasoline rates that works out to the same as an ICE that gets 40 mpg (mixed). Not that great IMHO.

You have the Performance Model so I guess you could compare the MPG to a sport sedan that goes 0-60 mph in less time than it takes to change your mind. I'm not sure there are any sport sedans that fast so maybe we just guess it probably gets about 15 mpg. There are cars out there that get 40 mpg but I'm not so sure I want to spend any time behind the wheel of them.

 

[mswlogo]

You have the Performance Model so I guess you could compare the MPG to a sport sedan that goes 0-60 mph in less time than it takes to change your mind. I'm not sure there are any sport sedans that fast so maybe we just guess it probably gets about 15 mpg. There are cars out there that get 40 mpg but I'm not so sure I want to spend any time behind the wheel of them.

True. But I rarely drive it like a sports car. If I did my wh/mi would be more like 350 wh/mi. I drive it like a Bolt

I only got the Performance for free supercharging and quicker delivery. I would have been fine with a straight dual motor.

It's all because my electricity rates are so high.

 

[StealthP3D]

It's all because my electricity rates are so high.

We sold our two gas cars for two EV's because our "gas rates" were so high. And they just keep getting higher. I can't find any regular for less than $3.27/gal. but our Volvo drank Premium and it's $3.50/gal. at the Costco. This is a map of the average gas price (regular grade) in Washington for the last three years:

To be honest, we really were just getting sick of gas cars. We had some expensive repairs and it's a pain in the ass to always be scheduling oil changes. I did my own oil changes on my Mazda after a very bad experience at the local Mazda dealership but there are other things I would rather spend my Sunday doing than changing oil.

The benefit neither of us expected was how much more fun it is to have all that instant torque at your disposal. It makes driving so much more fun because you feel so connected to the force. It's like wielding Luke Skywalkers lightsaber. And regen braking seems so much more elegant than clamping a spinning metal disc between friction material that sheds black dust on your freshly cleaned wheels!

 

[mswlogo]

We sold our two gas cars for two EV's because our "gas rates" were so high. And they just keep getting higher. I can't find any regular for less than $3.27/gal. but our Volvo drank Premium and it's $3.50/gal. at the Costco. This is a map of the average gas price (regular grade) in Washington for the last three years:

To be honest, we really were just getting sick of gas cars. We had some expensive repairs and it's a pain in the ass to always be scheduling oil changes. I did my own oil changes on my Mazda after a very bad experience at the local Mazda dealership but there are other things I would rather spend my Sunday doing than changing oil.

The benefit neither of us expected was how much more fun it is to have all that instant torque at your disposal. It makes driving so much more fun because you feel so connected to the force. It's like wielding Luke Skywalkers lightsaber. And regen braking seems so much more elegant than clamping a spinning metal disc between friction material that sheds black dust on your freshly cleaned wheels!

Don't get me wrong, I love the EV for many other reasons and will probably replace our ICE SUV eventually with an EV. I was just a little surprised/disappointed I didn't see all the "savings" in fuel that was advertised when I ordered. They are definitely real savings in other parts of the country. That was part of my justification for buying it. It's more up front cost but I'll get it back over the life of the car.

Now if gas keeps going up, I'll feel a lot better. It will probably help Tesla a lot as well.

One other big reason I bought the car was FSD. Then I was punished for buying that early, grrr. Well that's kind of moving slowly too. But I did expected that from the get go. It's a tough problem.

 

[sandeen]

Another Minnesota friend who got a 3 in November 2018 is at around a cumulative 500Wh/mile from the wall.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Another Minnesota friend who got a 3 in November 2018 is at around a cumulative 500Wh/mile from the wall.

Out of curiosity: is your car kept outside at home? Or just a very cold garage? Or is it in an insulated garage?

 

[dcdttu]

I’m gonna put a watt hour meter on the Wall Connector. You get them for $20 on Amazon.

Stupid question - could I just see the Wh/mi of my car/charging if my charger is on its own sub-meter? The city of Austin installed it and I get a flat $30/mo fee for using it to charge my car. Thanks!

 

[sandeen]

Out of curiosity: is your car kept outside at home? Or just a very cold garage? Or is it in an insulated garage?

Mine is in a very cold garage (though it still tends to maintain a temp above ambient.) My friend's is an unheated but better-insulated garage.

 

[sandeen]

Stupid question - could I just see the Wh/mi of my car/charging if my charger is on its own sub-meter? The city of Austin installed it and I get a flat $30/mo fee for using it to charge my car. Thanks!

Should be able to, yep! If you figure it out please share.

I wish I still lived in Austin, say hi to Barton Springs for me.

 

[mswlogo]

Stupid question - could I just see the Wh/mi of my car/charging if my charger is on its own sub-meter? The city of Austin installed it and I get a flat $30/mo fee for using it to charge my car. Thanks!

If it's a flat $30/mo who cares what your Wh/mi is
But yes, just write down your odometer and EV meter reading once a month or so.

 

[chronopc]

Whether it's "MUCH" better depends on fuel costs and the mpg you're comparing to.

543 Wh/mile is 1.84 miles/kWh. At $0.15/kWh that's 8.2 cents/mile.
A 30mpg car with gas at $2.90 is $2.90/30 = 9.7 cents/mile.

So it's a bit better than an average car for me. Off peak charging rates would help. What I find more interesting is my real-life net "fuel efficiency" of 543 Wh/mile vs. the EPA rating of 270 Wh/mile.

Depends on the state you live in too. Gas in CA is over $4 now. So would be 13 cents a mile.

Also I'm pretty sure ICE vehicles don't get 100% gas pump to wheel efficiency. Being stuck in traffic would take a huge hit on the MPG.

 

[ralph142]

I have a march 2019 MR, blue, 18 aero wheels, stock tires etc. 1479 miles so far in the PNW. lifetime average wh/mile 209. Mostly commuting but one roundtrip to eastern washington of 600 miles, and a couple of trips from sea level up to the Mt Baker ski area. Mostly home charging at 120 volts, cost of $.08 per kwh. For a total of 309111 wh = $.016/mi, nominally battery to wheel.
In fact, of course, I spent $17.24 supercharging on the long rt, and once a week or so I've charged up (to 80% soc) at work for free. Also of course the real cost of home charging is at least $.01/kwh higher because of the taxes and fees by pse, and is probably only ~80% efficient. So if we call the supercharging and free charging a wash (so far), and figure I really consumed 309111 * 1.20 wh = 370933.2 wh = 370.9332 kwh * $.09 = $33.38 /1479mi= $.023/mi. If the total consumption was at home charging only. I could easily make my total cost of power zero with very little inconvenience by charging at work exclusively.

The MR replaces a 1999 honda accord dx which still gets 30 mpg on the highway, but ~24 ish in town. If that was all highway and gas was as cheap as ~$3.50 a gallon, = 49.3 gallons * $3.50/gal = $172.55/ 1479mi = $.12 /mi so ~ 5 x as much/mi for the accord.

Clearly cheaper to run the MR, but also obviously a fairly complicated set of assumptions and actual circumstances.

 

[StealthP3D]

I have a march 2019 MR, blue, 18 aero wheels, stock tires etc. 1479 miles so far in the PNW. lifetime average wh/mile 209. Mostly commuting but one roundtrip to eastern washington of 600 miles, and a couple of trips from sea level up to the Mt Baker ski area. Mostly home charging at 120 volts, cost of $.08 per kwh. For a total of 309111 wh = $.016/mi, nominally battery to wheel.

Hi Ralph, I'm an ex-Bellinghamster here. Still love skiing at Baker. You have our LR beat for efficiency at 209 Wh/mi vs. our 236 Wh/mi. Still, it's a very inexpensive car to run (regardless of all the people fretting over minuscule amounts of vampire drain, charging losses, etc.) and the performance is not even comparable to a 30 mpg car!

Last summer/fall the WSDOT applied a new chip seal surface to the Mt. Baker Hwy. I drove my wife's LR white Model 3 up there while the work was still in progress (September, I think) and got a bunch of tar splatter that was very difficult to remove. I expected that since the surface was being laid as we drove up there. This winter I drove my white P3D up there a number of times and noticed the tar splatter was still happening, even when the temperatures were near or below freezing! I think the contractor used a poor grade of bitumen that never really solidified. I cleaned it all off during a spell of decent weather (January, I think) and then it all came back by February/March. It should have solidified in the cold weather.

Can you check your bodywork and tell me if you have it too? It won't be as easy to see on your blue car as it is on our white cars but you can easily feel the tar splatter by running your fingertips along the freshly washed bodywork. Most of it is on our kick panels and around the wheels but it also made it inside the door sills and 3/4 of the way up the door panels. Also below the trunk area. Even Meguires Bug and Tar Remover can barely touch it. I just spent about 12 hours over 5 days removing it all.

 

[ralph142]

I

Hi Ralph, I'm an ex-Bellinghamster here. Still love skiing at Baker. You have our LR beat for efficiency at 209 Wh/mi vs. our 236 Wh/mi. Still, it's a very inexpensive car to run (regardless of all the people fretting over minuscule amounts of vampire drain, charging losses, etc.) and the performance is not even comparable to a 30 mpg car!

Last summer/fall the WSDOT applied a new chip seal surface to the Mt. Baker Hwy. I drove my wife's LR white Model 3 up there while the work was still in progress (September, I think) and got a bunch of tar splatter that was very difficult to remove. I expected that since the surface was being laid as we drove up there. This winter I drove my white P3D up there a number of times and noticed the tar splatter was still happening, even when the temperatures were near or below freezing! I think the contractor used a poor grade of bitumen that never really solidified. I cleaned it all off during a spell of decent weather (January, I think) and then it all came back by February/March. It should have solidified in the cold weather.

Can you check your bodywork and tell me if you have it too? It won't be as easy to see on your blue car as it is on our white cars but you can easily feel the tar splatter by running your fingertips along the freshly washed bodywork. Most of it is on our kick panels and around the wheels but it also made it inside the door sills and 3/4 of the way up the door panels. Also below the trunk area. Even Meguires Bug and Tar Remover can barely touch it. I just spent about 12 hours over 5 days removing it all.

I"ll be happy to check, but i'm sure i would have noticed. I buzzed up there sunday pm on a whim after checking on the cabin. I was surprised at how little traffic there was on a nice sunday, but what a joy to drive.

 

[ralph142]

No evidence of it today, you should be safe

 

[hacer]

Not too much of either. Preheat really only 2-3 mins before departure. Cabin overheat protection is off. Stats-gathering apps have been disabled.

(Of course having said this, TODAY my wife turned on cabin preheat, then rode with her co-worker instead, and I got a notice 4hrs later that the car had decided it was time to turn off the climate control - but that is not at all a regular occurrence. )

My wife does this a lot and our car's efficiency is still way higher than yours. Are you charging from a 120V outlet? Even if that's the case (which will be about an extra 10% efficiency hit over 240V) your wall-to-battery-discharge is much too inefficient on average. Maybe you have a defective on-board charger or something else is on the circuit that you're measuring the usage of?

 

[sandeen]

My wife does this a lot and our car's efficiency is still way higher than yours. Are you charging from a 120V outlet? Even if that's the case (which will be about an extra 10% efficiency hit over 240V) your wall-to-battery-discharge is much too inefficient on average. Maybe you have a defective on-board charger or something else is on the circuit that you're measuring the usage of?

Measurement is inside the 30A / 240V EVSE itself, so nothing else could be getting measured ...