M3P high speed performance [doesnt pull much after 70 mph?]

[musculobog]

Hey,

I had a 2019 RS5, stage 2, 570HP, pulled like a mofo till 150mph. Jumped on the M3P wagon, love the tech, the instant throttle response, the not paying 200 dollars for gas each week. But after 70mph it feels like it falls on it`s face. Can barely pass a 3000 diesel flooring it. Is it just me? Seriously considering swapping it with a Model S LR which supposedly pulls hard even after 70mph...your experiences regarding this matter?

 

[sightman]

Yea after 70mph is just about when the power tapers off the model 3. I have the M3 LR and at 70mph the LR and P are identical in output and I wouldn't say the car feels flat, but there isn't as much power available when the motor is spinning at that speed.

I don't know much about the model S power curve, but the plaid stays fairly flat and may be what you are looking for.

 

[Apprunner]

M3P and Model S have the same 0-60 but the M3P has about 11.5s quarter mile and the Model S has 10.6s. Its waaaay faster than the M3P after 60.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

With an average state of charge, the 3P only has about 300HP at 90MPH, and around 200HP at 150MPH, compared to your RS5 which might have 500HP at either speed.

The dyno below appears to be taken at high SOC and high temperature so it may considerably overstate what you'll actually experience at normal SOCs and temperatures:

If breakneck acceleration at triple-digit speeds is important to you, get a Plaid which has about 1000HP all the way up to 200MPH.

 

[nate704]

B9 RS5 Dyno

Wanted to get some true numbers to the previous owners claims which I had posted earlier. Seems to me his numbers were crank #'s, not at the wheels which make more sense. Bought my 2019 RS5 about 4 weeks ago with mods already done by the previous owner which is awesome as it saves me some time...

www.audizine.com

 

[DayTrippin]

I have a M3 LR with boost and a MS LR. My M3 LR w/boost easily runs with an M3P from about 40 mph and up. They just really detuned the launch more than you would think.

The MS LR definitely has its launches detuned as well. I think they did it so as not to compete with the Plaid. Actually in the real world, it is a touch slower to 60 mph than the M3P. It is because the really nerfed the launch, not because the car is lacking power.

By about 30 mph, the MS LR is pulling hard and it just keeps on pulling. It will trap about 12 mph faster in the 1/4 than the M3P. Keep in mind this is even with it getting to 60 slower than the M3P. The MS LR runs the 1/4 about like a Lambo Huracan but launches much slower. It definitely doesn't lay down at 60 like almost all other Teslas than the Plaid.

The MS LR even though much slower to 60 than the outgoing MS Performance model, still beats it in the 1/4. Basically you get a Plaid without the 3rd motor. You can make back to back to back to back to back, etc. runs without the performance dropping off. I literally made 10 runs in a row in my MS LR to 60 as fast as I could stop, turn around and run again without almost any variation in time.

If Telsa didn't nerf the launch, the MS LR likely would be mid 2's to 60 mph and low 10's. That would take sales away from the Plaid.

 

[nate704]

I have a M3 LR with boost and a MS LR. My M3 LR w/boost easily runs with an M3P from about 40 mph and up. They just really detuned the launch more than you would think.

The MS LR definitely has its launches detuned as well. I think they did it so as not to compete with the Plaid. Actually in the real world, it is a touch slower to 60 mph than the M3P. It is because the really nerfed the launch, not because the car is lacking power.

By about 30 mph, the MS LR is pulling hard and it just keeps on pulling. It will trap about 12 mph faster in the 1/4 than the M3P. Keep in mind this is even with it getting to 60 slower than the M3P. The MS LR runs the 1/4 about like a Lambo Huracan but launches much slower. It definitely doesn't lay down at 60 like almost all other Teslas than the Plaid.

The MS LR even though much slower to 60 than the outgoing MS Performance model, still beats it in the 1/4. Basically you get a Plaid without the 3rd motor. You can make back to back to back to back to back, etc. runs without the performance dropping off. I literally made 10 runs in a row in my MS LR to 60 as fast as I could stop, turn around and run again without almost any variation in time.

If Telsa didn't nerf the launch, the MS LR likely would be mid 2's to 60 mph and low 10's. That would take sales away from the Plaid.

MSLR is twice the money and not twice as fast.

 

[dn325ci]

MSLR is twice the money and not twice as fast.

Speed has never been a linear game, my friend.

 

[nate704]

Speed has never been a linear game, my friend.

comparing apples to oranges.

 

[charlieaf92]

You're absolutely correct. I traded from a 911 and above 70 the M3P is a bit of a let down. It isn't a slouch by any means, but compared to it's insane acceleration prior to 70 it feels slow. I suspect that getting some lighter wheels would make a difference. The 20" wheels are notoriously heavy and not only kill range but reduce acceleration above 40.

I found that having brutal acceleration from a stop is much more useful and fun day to day vs. having top end. That, combined with all of the other advantages electric offers, made it an easy choice for me.

 

[DayTrippin]

MSLR is twice the money and not twice as fast.

If I could double my speed by doubling my investment, I'd be the richest man in the world in short order.

The MS LR is a helluva bargain for what you get. It has awesome real-world acceleration and excellent real world range. It doesn't feel cheap inside m like my 3 does either. Not going to say it is luxurious either but the cooled seats make a huge difference for me.

While EVs don't engage me as much emotionally as ICE cars do, I do appreciate their performance. The 3 feels a lot more like an appliance and my S is more engaging. Not to mention the MS LR doesn't feel like a V8 that dropped 2 cylinders when it hits 60 mph and turned into a V6 like the 3's do.

Now if Tesla were to make something like a improved Model 3 Plaid, with nice interior ventilated seats, better brakes, improved suspension, non-glass roof, capable of high 9's to 10 flat in the 1/4 and low 2 second 0-60, I'd take that over my MS LR, a MS Plaid or M3P, in a heartbeat. While at it, no yoke or yoke with DBW and some sort of good gearshift mechanism.

 

[enemji]

Hey,

I had a 2019 RS5, stage 2, 570HP, pulled like a mofo till 150mph. Jumped on the M3P wagon, love the tech, the instant throttle response, the not paying 200 dollars for gas each week. But after 70mph it feels like it falls on it`s face. Can barely pass a 3000 diesel flooring it. Is it just me? Seriously considering swapping it with a Model S LR which supposedly pulls hard even after 70mph...your experiences regarding this matter?

I pass tractor trailers everyday at 80mph on my LR. I find no issue. The car does a good job. I guess it is all relative to your other vehicle.

 

[Apprunner]

I pass tractor trailers everyday at 80mph on my LR. I find no issue. The car does a good job. I guess it is all relative to your other vehicle.

The slowness is greatly exaggerated. Its slower relative to the 0-60 but i've walked an M340 from 60-110 pretty easily (which is pretty quick) . After that, the car falls flat but so does my courage so no big deal for me

 

[Unclepaul]

This is something that Tesla seems to be working on. Electric motors tend to provide max torque at 0 RPM, so would make sense that they will flatten out in HP as the revs build. In addition, a Modified Turbo/supercharged ICE will tend to at least sound faster at high RPMs in lower gears as the motors scream and the exhausts roar.
Tesls has switched to different design motors in their S/X. This, plus tuning as enabled them to pull much stronger at higher speeds. Latest tire technology is allowing Model S Plaid to join the 200 mph club. This is currently the car you want if pulling strong at high speeds is your goal.

ICE and EV still compete. Neither wins at every data point, so it is still different horses for different courses.

 

[Lindenwood]

To be clear, actual wheel torque (and thus motive force) is a lot closer to a similar-power vehicles at high speeds than we assume.

Here is a generic graph of wheel torque for a hypothetical 6-speed transmission.

Here is an M3P dyno graph:

What we are mostly experiencing is that there is no obvious disconnect—I.e. a gear shift—between the high wheel torque at low speeds and the lower wheel torque at higher speeds. So, our impression is the vehicle “falls flat,” but in reality you will find it probably runs 60-120mph about as quickly as most cars in this class.

 

[charlieaf92]

To be clear, actual wheel torque (and thus motive force) is a lot closer to a similar-power vehicles at high speeds than we assume.

Here is a generic graph of wheel torque for a hypothetical 6-speed transmission.

View attachment 929216

Here is an M3P dyno graph:
View attachment 929217

What we are mostly experiencing is that there is no obvious disconnect—I.e. a gear shift—between the high wheel torque at low speeds and the lower wheel torque at higher speeds. So, our impression is the vehicle “falls flat,” but in reality you will find it probably runs 60-120mph about as quickly as most cars in this class.

Good point. The trap speeds also help tell the story.

 

[tm1v2]

To me this car doesn't "fall flat" at 60-110+ MPH at all. Does it pull as hard as at lower speeds? No. Does it pull like a modded ICE car with 500+ WHP at 100 MPH? No. But falling flat? I dunno...it still feels quicker at those speeds than my past AWD ICE cars (~ 300 WHP tuned). I still pass people easily at those speeds. And no waiting for a downshift, ever.

However the numbers don't lie, the new "Palladium" Model S is a beast up top, that is the Tesla to get if high speed pulls are your priority. Even the "regular" dual motor version, let alone the Plaid.

I got to drive a friend's RS5 - completely stock, not like the OP's! - and while it certainly had good power, having to wait for a downshift messes that up for me. It's a really sweet car. He got it as a fast, fun, nice, practical (hatchback!), comfortable, sporty family car. And it nails a very nice combination of that. But I've never liked automatics and the RS5 didn't change that for me. It'd be so much better with a stick shift. His last Audi was a stick shift but RS5 only comes in an automatic. As it is, I find my M3P with upgraded suspension more fun and responsive. (I am jealous of the RS5's hatchback though...and seats...)

 

[tm1v2]

Also the Model S is a very different driving experience from the Model 3. The Model S is a great car - I own one too! - but for sheer driving fun I'll take a Model 3 any day.

There is a huge variance in how the different Model S generations and suspensions drive though, some handle much better than others, but they all feel like big cruisers at heart. The Model 3 feels much more nimble, smaller, lighter on its feet, etc. It's more fun around turns and also easier to drive and park in cities, and that is the majority of my driving these days (twisty rural roads + urban/ish).

I certainly like the idea of having more top end power for high speed 100+ MPH pulls...but I'd almost never use it. My days of getting speeding tickets and risking more serious trouble with the law during late night empty highway drives are long over.

Maybe if I lived someplace with these signs on the highways.

 

[Lindenwood]

Of note, when I have to pass semi trucks on back roads, I find I am usually hitting 100mph by the time I am even with the truck cab, when starting at 65mph…

 

[enemji]

The slowness is greatly exaggerated. Its slower relative to the 0-60 but i've walked an M340 from 60-110 pretty easily (which is pretty quick) . After that, the car falls flat but so does my courage so no big deal for me

I still recall taking 10 seconds or maybe it was forever when I was using my RX300 to pass trucks on the highway.