map updates!

[MikeBur]

I've always found it surprising that, when a new road is opened, SatNav seeing that the car is driving across "fields"!! does not cause data to be uploaded to somewhere central, and then within a short period of time, assuming lots of cars with trip-recording SatNav are also driving that new road, the map is then updated.

Lots that could be done with trip-recording SatNav. My average speed on sections of road, along with everyone else's, would establish a good average speed for that section; perhaps even for certain times of the day. Google has that sort of information, so maybe it does use trip-recording GPS data, but it certainly doesn't have accurate times for my Rat-run shortcuts locally. Surely trip-recording GPS data would make those rat-runs become apparent and useful (might not be of benefit to me to have to share mine though!!). Out in the country my SatNav says "Turn left in 100 yards" and when I get there it turns out that I have priority, and the road joining from the right has to yield; I presume that the maps being used don't indicate whether either route has priority for such country lanes. If the SatNav detected whether vehicles stop, or not, at that junction if turning Right and if turning Left that would indicate what the correct priority is for the junction, and the SatNav could phone-home with the information. Narrow country roads, where cars frequently stop (to let others past), or on extremely narrow roads where cars back-up, would indicate a route not really suitable as a short-cut.

I'd get much better arrival times based on my driving style, and the average speeds of the roads. For roads that I drive often my own segment times, even if above the speed limit, would be useful in determining arrival time. I'm sure there are better solutions (Tesla + Google Maps for example ) but my VW Golf has an utterly useless SatNav (I'm surprised given their "vorsprung durch technik" that the Germans aren't ashamed of whatever brand of SatNav software it is that they have chosen & installed in their cars). "Stay on this road for a long time" (I get that if it is more than about 20 miles ...) and "Turn right in 100 yards at the second" are examples of directions that could definitely be improved! but for a 2.5 hours journey, on highways where speed limit is likely to be attained for pretty much the whole journey, and which I stick to, it can estimate as much as a 4 hour journey time. Other people I know resort to having a TomTom in addition to the plumbed-in dashboard SatNav - which is a daft solution to have to adopt, and I can't believe that something isn't logging GPS locations and calculating speed ... and phoning home, improving maps and sector time estimates.

Have you tried "Waze? Yes, it even works well in the UK. Think of it as crowd-sourced navigation and advanced users doing map editing.

I regularly travel a 200 mile journey and its estimates are now +/- 5 minutes in most cases, and when traffic strikes it shows how long delays are expected to be, if no smarter reroute option, or offers to reroute.

it also enables multi-point trips and is now owned by Google.

Number of us wish it were a Tesla App

 

[Kratus]

Number of us wish it were a Tesla App

Besides the chrome browser, the ability to run apps is a long awaited feature on the Model S.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Have you tried "Waze?

That's new to me, thanks. I tried a regular, rural, route around here on Waze and it picked the standard Google Maps route for which there are better shortcuts available (or so I think!!) ... but maybe noone is using Waze on my routes, and I'd be happy to be that guinea pig. I might also actually drive the recommended routes and see if they are as bad as I think (or as good as Waze suggests!!)

Something else I'd like:

A SatNav which has maps specifically for Hypermiling. On the school-run I know exactly which landmarks to coast from, e.g. to lose speed for a bend etc and minimise breaking. On an unfamiliar road I can only guess. Also, I'm not good/effective at comparing "current performance" to "Normal" - e.g. if I have a strong headwind, or a car full of people and luggage my judgement-distance accuracy drops A Cruise Control setting that could Hypermile and change speed suitable, coasting where appropriate, could well save huge amounts of fuel if applied to the whole road using population's fleet. No idea what it would do when coasting downhill towards a junction though! as clearly brakes are required at that point; as Autonomous driving improves I suppose that will be solved and the car will be able to come to a stop at the junction, or sooner if ACC detects a vehicle in front.

Getting from A-to-B autonomously, or even with Auto Pilot, is great, but there is a big opportunity to do it at maximum efficiency IMHO. When I first started Hypermiling (Renault Espace people-carrier, probably 10 years ago) I was amazed that I was able to increase my MPG by 1/3rd !! (in my mind that amounted to more than 10 years of FREE driving in a lifetime ...) Latterly, with ownership of more Eco cars, I've been disappointed to find it very difficult to make much difference comparing driving normally (i.e. no heavy braking) with deliberately selecting neutral and coasting (in terms of the reading I get on the trip-MPG rather than the instant-MPG - or the trip-MPG is lying / not sufficiently accurate). I know that lift-off (i.e. in gear) in current [ICE] vehicles gives me zero fuel usage (stops injecting fuel into cylinders), but of course I get some engine-breaking too, whereas in neutral and particularly if on a slight/significant downhill slope, I get very significant distance which should surely be better than zero-fuel and engine-braking deceleration (dashboard tells me I'm doing 200MPG, but that's its always-answer for coasting in Neutral, except at very low speeds, and clearly cannot be accurate if coasting at both 50MPH and 100MPH both say 200MPG!)

Seems to me a BEV has a much better opportunity to balance coast / regen for Hypermiling than I will ever be able to do in manual/stick-shift ICE, if it had a decent set of Hypermiling maps / SatNav.

(I did do a Patent Search a couple of years back in case this was a Novel idea, but there was already Prior Art so I hope someone is actually working on this, rather than just camping on the Intellectual Property and adopting a Keep-off-the-Grass approach to the technology, which I wouldn't put past Automotive / Oil industry )

 

[brkaus]

I've always found it surprising that, when a new road is opened, SatNav seeing that the car is driving across "fields"!! does not cause data to be uploaded to somewhere central, and then within a short period of time, assuming lots of cars with trip-recording SatNav are also driving that new road, the map is then updated.

Others have mentioned waze. What you mention above is actually how waze works. GPS trails are uploaded to waze as people drive. If there are enough trails through a field, their backend system will flag the spot for an editor to review. The editor can look at satellite images and gps trails to update the map. It does same for adjusting turns, if, for example, a left is not allowed but lots of people take it, that intersection would be flagged for review.

Portable gps systems can't do it without the uplink. Most cars can't do it either. But I'm surprised that Tesla isn't doing something similar. They could be getting navigon data for free/discount and paying them back with map updates.

 

[William13]

My road is four years old now and still not on Navigon system in Tesla. The Google map updated prior to my getting the Tesla three years ago. I continue to wait for real updates as promised for Signature buyers. So many promises. I'm still happy with the car though.

 

[andrewket]

Others have mentioned waze. What you mention above is actually how waze works. GPS trails are uploaded to waze as people drive. If there are enough trails through a field, their backend system will flag the spot for an editor to review. The editor can look at satellite images and gps trails to update the map. It does same for adjusting turns, if, for example, a left is not allowed but lots of people take it, that intersection would be flagged for review.

Portable gps systems can't do it without the uplink. Most cars can't do it either. But I'm surprised that Tesla isn't doing something similar. They could be getting navigon data for free/discount and paying them back with map updates.

Actually, you don't have to wait for an editor. Everyone can edit maps. Your "status" on waze will dictate how fast those edits are communicated. Editing a map gets you lots of points.

 

[bob_p]

When I purchased my P85 in early 2013, the Tesla website stated navigation maps would be updated annually - for free.

That statement appears to be gone now from the website.

And it's been almost 3 years, and as far as I can recall, I've only received one map update (and there doesn't seem to be any way to check the "map database version").

 

[AmpedRealtor]

27 months of ownership and only received one map update. Tesla's many promises are catching up to them. Elon seems obsessed with Autopilot and nothing else. I think we are hosed.

 

[dirkhh]

27 months of ownership and only received one map update. Tesla's many promises are catching up to them. Elon seems obsessed with Autopilot and nothing else. I think we are hosed.

The navigation system received the massively over-hyped "charging peace of mind" update that did nothing at all to make things better, but has been pretty much a constant embarrassment from day one. $30k cars have significantly better navigation systems. My $300 cell phone has a significantly better navigation system.
Tesla is acting just like the other car makers. Lots of promises, no delivery.
We got the (in my opinion - I know I'm in the minority) v7 downgrade of the UI, we got the autopilot stuff (which I don't care for), but the basics like a navigation system with current maps, with the ability to pick between different routes, the ability to set a certain way point for a stop during the trip? Nothing. Crickets.

I'm so over Tesla, it's not even funny.

 

[1208]

You would think by now a company would do live satellite images/video of earth so you could zoom in on your self driving.

 

[TexasEV]

27 months of ownership and only received one map update. Tesla's many promises are catching up to them. Elon seems obsessed with Autopilot and nothing else. I think we are hosed.

I agree that the focus on autopilot seems to be a distraction that puts everything else (navigation, media, web browser, apps) at a lower priority, as in we'll get to it when we get to it, or not. Maybe it's because I have a classic, but my priority would be everything but autopilot. Apparently that's not what sells cars though.

 

[AnOutsider]

The navigation system received the massively over-hyped "charging peace of mind" update that did nothing at all to make things better, but has been pretty much a constant embarrassment from day one. $30k cars have significantly better navigation systems. My $300 cell phone has a significantly better navigation system.
Tesla is acting just like the other car makers. Lots of promises, no delivery.
We got the (in my opinion - I know I'm in the minority) v7 downgrade of the UI, we got the autopilot stuff (which I don't care for), but the basics like a navigation system with current maps, with the ability to pick between different routes, the ability to set a certain way point for a stop during the trip? Nothing. Crickets.

I'm so over Tesla, it's not even funny.

Sadly, you're right. The problem is: is there any other car on the road you'd rather be driving?

 

[jerry33]

27 months of ownership and only received one map update. Tesla's many promises are catching up to them. Elon seems obsessed with Autopilot and nothing else. I think we are hosed.

That is one more update than I've received.

- - - Updated - - -

Sadly, you're right. The problem is: is there any other car on the road you'd rather be driving?

It's still the best car you can purchase, but it could be so much better with very little effort. And the V7 downgrade is so upsetting to all us folks with first world problems.

 

[dirkhh]

Sadly, you're right. The problem is: is there any other car on the road you'd rather be driving?

DO NOT POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS FLAW IN MY COMPLAINING. DO! NOT!

Yeah. I know. And that's the reason why with all my kvetching and complaining I still am holding on to my Model X reservation and I of course still drive my P85D (with V6.2 firmware) and love every moment of it. I simply have a phone with Waze mounted next to the screen. Silly and embarrassing. But what the heck. There is no other car I'd rather be driving.

- - - Updated - - -

It's still the best car you can purchase, but it could be so much better with very little effort.

I think that's what's so upsetting. The things that are missing aren't rocket science. They aren't the AutoPilot. They aren't single post second row seats. They aren't gull wing doors. They are small software fixes that most other vendors have in one shape or another. Simple things like the map updates discussed here. This is not hard. Can we have 10% less focus on the really hard stuff (Autopilot, etc), and have that spent on finishing the unfinished parts of the firmware? Please?

 

[CatB]

I simply have a phone with Waze mounted next to the screen.

Have you tried this?
Waze for Tesla Incidents

I love it

 

[AnOutsider]

I think that's what's so upsetting. The things that are missing aren't rocket science. They aren't the AutoPilot. They aren't single post second row seats. They aren't gull wing doors. They are small software fixes that most other vendors have in one shape or another. Simple things like the map updates discussed here. This is not hard. Can we have 10% less focus on the really hard stuff (Autopilot, etc), and have that spent on finishing the unfinished parts of the firmware? Please?

Yeah, one can hope. I get the impression Tesla has gotten distracted in the tunnel vision that is Model X and AP on the Model S side. Hopefully they look up from their desks one day and go "wtf are we doing?"

 

[AmpedRealtor]

People need to tweet Musk about these issues.

 

[dirkhh]

People need to tweet Musk about these issues.

I have tweeted to him about several issues.
/dev/null

 

[gsxdsm]

I agree that the focus on autopilot seems to be a distraction that puts everything else (navigation, media, web browser, apps) at a lower priority, as in we'll get to it when we get to it, or not. Maybe it's because I have a classic, but my priority would be everything but autopilot. Apparently that's not what sells cars though.

The autopilot team is completely separate from the rest of the software teams.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The autopilot team is completely separate from the rest of the software teams.

But, I have a feeling the autopilot team gets priority over everyone else.

Luckily though the deficiencies of the maps is messing up the autopilot. The autopilot relies on the map data to determine when to slow down for curves. There have been numerous reports of the car slowing down for corners that don't exist.

So hopefully Elon will light a fire under the team that handles the map updates.