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Mary Barra, what is going through your mind right now?

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It is a shame GM isn't releasing the numbers of dealers whom have requested allocation of Bolts. I would be concerned that the 2017 Bolt won't be seen in non-compliance states as the compliance states will probably have the highest initial demand. I am also curious to see if Dealers actually offer the base model or if they will force you to get all those 'available' options...

No allocations yet.

In an interview, a GM rep said the Bolt will not be a high option car.

Concerning options (Shad Balch, GM):

LA Times: Some Tesla watchers wonder what kind of Model 3 Musk can deliver for $35,000, and believe that a fully loaded version will cost $50,000 or more. Will there be many trim levels of Bolts?

Shad Balch: Not really. There will be some options, but the base car will have most of our content and connectivity features, including active safety features. That will all be standard from the lower trim level.


Early comments indicate it will be a 50 state car, however that does not mean Alaska gets them the same day..

This is where Tesla really shines. They do not have to sell cars where sales are low or have service available. Since GM has dealers, they must supply North Dakota with cars and have places to do warranty work on them.
 

Competition on pricing of the cheapest cars results in minimum regulatory compliance. The real solution here is stronger regulation to set an appropriate minimum standard.

As the article notes:
GM isn’t the only automaker gunned by Global NCAP, as similar safety scores can be found vehicles from other manufacturers sold in South America.
 
No allocations yet.

In an interview, a GM rep said the Bolt will not be a high option car.

Concerning options (Shad Balch, GM):

LA Times: Some Tesla watchers wonder what kind of Model 3 Musk can deliver for $35,000, and believe that a fully loaded version will cost $50,000 or more. Will there be many trim levels of Bolts?

Shad Balch: Not really. There will be some options, but the base car will have most of our content and connectivity features, including active safety features. That will all be standard from the lower trim level.


Early comments indicate it will be a 50 state car, however that does not mean Alaska gets them the same day..

This is where Tesla really shines. They do not have to sell cars where sales are low or have service available. Since GM has dealers, they must supply North Dakota with cars and have places to do warranty work on them.
Interesting. GM needs to update its site. The collision avoidance stuff and the connectivity features show as available and not standard.
 
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Interesting. GM needs to update its site. The collision avoidance stuff and the connectivity features show as available and not standard.

Nobody knows what will ship with a Bolt badge on it, not even GM yet. But they seldom BS people.

It's fairly common for GM to over-deliver. They state worst case or keep quiet during development, but do not necessarily update their marketing after the production release.

One of the interesting sidebars was the 346ci engine put into the 1998+ Camaro and Firebirds. The car was advertised at 305 HP but the true rating was 355 HP (310 rwhp on a chassis dyno). Lots of conspiracy theories about this, but the most believable is Scott Settlemire deliberated rated the engine at a lower RPM (5600) to avoid getting grief from the Corvette brand manager.

More recently, the 2015 Volt has more range (bigger battery) than the 2014, but GM did not resubmit the car for testing.
The 2016+ Volt says 111 kW of electric motor output, but it produces 120 kW.
 
Nobody knows what will ship with a Bolt badge on it, not even GM yet. But they seldom BS people.

It's fairly common for GM to over-deliver. They state worst case or keep quiet during development, but do not necessarily update their marketing after the production release.

One of the interesting sidebars was the 346ci engine put into the 1998+ Camaro and Firebirds. The car was advertised at 305 HP but the true rating was 355 HP (310 rwhp on a chassis dyno). Lots of conspiracy theories about this, but the most believable is Scott Settlemire deliberated rated the engine at a lower RPM (5600) to avoid getting grief from the Corvette brand manager.

More recently, the 2015 Volt has more range (bigger battery) than the 2014, but GM did not resubmit the car for testing.
The 2016+ Volt says 111 kW of electric motor output, but it produces 120 kW.
Oh. Maybe they under promised on a DCFC network and are going to over deliver...
 
Negotiation is a fact of life. If two people are starting new jobs at the same company filling the same role and one is a better negotiator they will probably start with a better salary, maybe more vacation time, maybe a starting bonus. Should this be illegal? Is it morally indefensible, or is it just the reality of competition in the real world and extends into many aspects of our lives even if we aren't always fully aware of it?
I don't think we're asking about the legalities or moral defensibility of a system. We're asking if there's a better one. In your unrelated example, would the company and potential employees be better served if the salary and benefits were fixed, given the job requirements? How would that change the interaction between the company and "hard" negotiators vs "soft" negotiators? Is it possible this type of negotiation is the cause for the pay gap between men and women, or other unfairness given to minorities? I think those are valid questions and dismissing them as "negotiation is how it is" doesn't permit the thought experiment.

You are right that some customers will benefit more from the Tesla one-price model as they don't have good negotiation skills... although, as I pointed out Tesla still has opportunities to take advantage of those customers like traditional dealership... most likely by under-valuing their trade-in.
Tesla undervalues all trade-ins. I think that's one area that most people aren't going to be taken in (at least not blindly), since real values are clearly available elsewhere. I think your argument is supportive of a negotiating-acumen socialist style format where the less-savvy consumers make up the bulk of the profits for the seller, and the savvy consumers get to walk away closer to "cost".

Personally, I feel like fixed pricing is a good model. The interaction between the salesperson and the consumer doesn't include as much positioning and self-interest, so in theory it fosters a more collaborative experience. There's also a level of fairness as far as knowing that others who bought your same spec on the same day paid exactly the same price. That said, I think the drawback is the monopoly aspect of the product. Tesla has a one-of-a-kind product so you can't really cross-shop it. And since they don't sell through retailers/dealers, it's not like you can cross shop them. It's a take it or leave it price, though I'd argue it's clearly market driven.

Buying negotiated items is generally listed as the least pleasant consumer experience. Cars rank at the top. Mattresses always make the list as well. Why? Because many people don't want to have to deal with negotiation when making decisions about an important product. They want a cooperative experience, devoid of suspicion. This is one of the reasons for the success behind Danny Meyer's no-tip policies in NYC. It's not "is my server trying to sell me the great dish for the tip" or "is this customer going to tip me properly even though I'm not terribly happy today"? The servers at those restaurants have said that the customer/server relationship improved tremendously.

So as I said before, this is the most time I've spent thinking about it, but for now I think Tesla's model is a better model. I'm sure I'm missing some things, but that's my initial take. Sorry for all the thinking "out loud".
 
Oh. Maybe they under promised on a DCFC network and are going to over deliver...

Chevrolet released their transcontinental EVs in late 2010 and there's about 100,000 of them in the US now. It's a pragmatic solution to electrification and arguably the best in it's class.

And yes, Chevrolet has made no empty claims about DCFC expansion. "No Plans At This Time" is often misunderstood. They were also asked, "when will us wussies get an automatic in the Z06 models" and the answers was "no plans at this time". Now look, any 16 year old with too much money can drive one, there are even ARRGGHHH!!! convertibles.

Truth is? No transcontinental EV can currently keep pace with a PHEV. There are places you cannot go in an EV unless you tow a generator. That is unlikely to change for years.
 
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Chevrolet released their transcontinental EVs in late 2010 and there's about 100,000 of them in the US now. It's a pragmatic solution to electrification and arguably the best in it's class.

And yes, Chevrolet has made no empty claims about DCFC expansion. "No Plans At This Time" is often misunderstood. They were also asked, "when will us wussies get an automatic in the Z06 models" and the answers was "no plans at this time". Now look, any 16 year old with too much money can drive one, there are even ARRGGHHH!!! convertibles.

Truth is? No transcontinental EV can currently keep pace with a PHEV. There are places you cannot go in an EV unless you tow a generator. That is unlikely to change for years.
Fair. Of course not having a charging network or not helping it expand plays right into the whole oil conglomerate hands with phev's. Next shoppers ask what is the point, why not just get a gas powered car. :oops:
 
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Chevrolet released their transcontinental EVs in late 2010 and there's about 100,000 of them in the US now. It's a pragmatic solution to electrification and arguably the best in it's class.

It isn't electrification. It is drive 40 miles on electric and 3176 miles on gas. And get worse mileage doing it than a full gas hybrid.

Thank you kindly.
 
It isn't electrification. It is drive 40 miles on electric and 3176 miles on gas. And get worse mileage doing it than a full gas hybrid.

Thank you kindly.

If you buy a car to drive from LA to NY then drive it off a pier, you are correct.

That's not how most people use cars.

Didn't it ever puzzle you how people can use EVs that cost $25k and go 80 miles?

It has to do with how most Americans drive. Regardless of what you've read on the Interwebbythingy, most people do not drive cross country, they fly.
 
You buy a Volt to electrify your commute and still have range to drive long distances the few times you need to. People get them because they can't justify owning a city-only car like a Leaf. The Volt does both. Sure a Prius will get much better efficiency on long drives, but for that daily commute that is 90% of the miles the Volt wins. It's an EV with training wheels.

I would like to see the Voltec engine in some truck based SUVs and pickup trucks, the segment that will take the longest to go fully EV. A big family vehicle that can be driven on electricity around town, but still haul the camper up into the remote mountains on the weekend. The low level torque would be great for off-roading.
 
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Chevrolet released their transcontinental EVs in late 2010 and there's about 100,000 of them in the US now. It's a pragmatic solution to electrification and arguably the best in it's class.

And yes, Chevrolet has made no empty claims about DCFC expansion. "No Plans At This Time" is often misunderstood. They were also asked, "when will us wussies get an automatic in the Z06 models" and the answers was "no plans at this time". Now look, any 16 year old with too much money can drive one, there are even ARRGGHHH!!! convertibles.

Truth is? No transcontinental EV can currently keep pace with a PHEV. There are places you cannot go in an EV unless you tow a generator. That is unlikely to change for years.
If I were to buy a car right now, where I live, it'd be a Volt. That's because there's no EV charging network within the range of any EV on the market where I live. However, if I lived in the US I'd be getting a CPO/used Tesla. If there's an opportunity to drive without using gas, and go on road trips, I'm going to use it. The Volt is only a solution if there's no other way to drive cross-country without spending hours charging at a level 2 charger like Tesla drivers around have to do.
 
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You buy a Volt to electrify your commute and still have range to drive long distances the few times you need to.
I agree, although Volt non EV miles are not rare even though the average Volt travels ~ 12k miles a year. MacRat just got carried away with his advert.

I think I have read before that the average Gen1 Prius plug-in car travels about 2/3 miles on EV, compared to the 3/4 the above link says for the Volt. If we say that the Volt HV MPG is 40 and the Prius is 50 then the weighted averages work out to 150 MPG for the Prius and 160 MPG for the Volt.

Interesting and aligns with my point Vs fanboys: people are not averages; they tend to make rational decisions that match their driving routines.
 
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Here's another angle on all this that might just be me (and probably is) but here goes. I have a problem when people start saying I can or can't do something because somebody (or some industry) says it is an unfair practice. When the auto industry started lobbying to ban Tesla sales in their states because it didn't represent a fair sales model that threw up a huge red flag for me. Just because they are doing something in a manner that is different from the traditional way of doing things shouldn't limit my access to make the choice to do it that way.
I absolutely agree. Even though I happen to be one of those 'good negotiators' the instant I heard of what was going on in New Jersey in early 2014, then researched further to learn something similar was going on in Texas and other States, I determined to NEVER buy another new car from an 'independent franchised dealership' for the rest of my life. It is one thing to go to the Government and request a piece of legislation be drawn up as a sort of 'belt & suspenders' means to act as a backup for the contract you sign as a franchisee, in order to protect yourself from the franchisor. It is another entirely to go back and ask that that same legislative group modify those laws to ensure that no one an do business unless they sign a contract with you. That is patently UNFAIR.

I find it interesting that DELL Computer is based in Texas, where I believe they got their start -- a company that sells direct, but also sells through other retailers -- but Tesla Motors is not allowed to do the same in that State and several others. The comparisons go on, to companies like Starbucks and Krispy-Kreme, that have been able to expand as they saw fit with no legislative or judicial pressure whatsoever, but Tesla Stores are illegal. You can get a MacBook Pro or PowerMac at any number of retailers, whether brick and mortar or online, or you can walk into the Apple Store or buy from their website, but Tesla Stores are illegal. You can get a Microsoft Surface or XBOX ONE at anyplace from Best Buy to Fry's Electronics, or you can walk into a Microsoft Store or buy from their website, but Tesla Stores are illegal. I am not aware of reports that retailers sued Starbucks to prevent them from selling the same bags of coffee beans from their own shelves. I do not believe Winchell's or Dunkin Donuts filed injunctions against either Starbucks or Krispy-Kreme protesting their business model and expansion, but such protests and injunctions have been somehow, successfully levied against Tesla Motors.
 
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In your unrelated example, would the company and potential employees be better served if the salary and benefits were fixed, given the job requirements? How would that change the interaction between the company and "hard" negotiators vs "soft" negotiators? .

It wouldn't change much at all. Negotiation only starts with salary and benefits and continues on throughout the job - negotiate more resources for a project, or lower requirements, or more time, or the evaluation of your performance ("I know you were expecting X, but look at what I did related to Y, that is actually a lot more valuable"). People with strong negotiating skills understand how to work with people, create the perception of the proverbial "win-win", have the confidence to push, etc and as result they will generally do a better than a soft negotiator peer.
 
Now look, any 16 year old with too much money can drive one, there are even ARRGGHHH!!! convertibles.
I would have loved to have driven a high powered Corvette when I was 16. I could drive a car with a manual transmission then... But yeah, I would have preferred an automatic too. Trust that a whole bunch of 16-year-olds will enjoy driving Tesla Model ☰ -- just as for decades many of them drove BMW 3-Series. I don't believe there is a such thing as 'too much money' though...

By the way, minding my own business on my way to my Brother's house this past weekend, I ran into a mini-Corvette Convention:
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Truth is? No transcontinental EV can currently keep pace with a PHEV. There are places you cannot go in an EV unless you tow a generator. That is unlikely to change for years.
Years? Maybe. But certainly not 'decades' as EV Naysayers are fond of saying. The time will come when a single 'tank' for an EV will be enough to go from the nearest major city directly to the relative 'Ends of the Earth' and back without issue. And in the far flung future, it will be even better than that, as cars will roll out of Fremont showing THOUSANDS of miles of available range. Just wait.
 
It has to do with how most Americans drive. Regardless of what you've read on the Interwebbythingy, most people do not drive cross country, they fly.
I believe rather firmly that the Tesla Model ☰ will usher in the Return of the American Road Trip. The signs are already there. The Model S and Model X already inspire people to drive more often. It isn't just curiosity over using the Supercharger network. It is the experience of driving the cars themselves. And, yes... To some extent, it is the inherent fear of having to get an ICE rental car upon arriving at one's destination by plane.

:D