Mary Barra, what is going through your mind right now?

[Dan Detweiler]

The Bolt is shaping up to be a great car. I know two people who own Volts and, while not my cup o' tea, they are quite taken with them and they can run the cars electric only for 90% of their driving.

Additionally the Bolt will almost definitely be shipping on time and in very large quantities. People who want one won't have to put down a deposit, wait 3 years and then pay a non-negotiable price for it.

I have been driving a Volt for 4 years now and love it. It has done everything Chevy said it would. That being said it is not even close to being a Model 3 nor is the Bolt...at least not in my eyes. First off the Bolt is ugly, I mean REALLY ugly. Totally a personal thing but, well, there you go. Secondly, the technology isn't even close and with the ability for over the air updates it makes it a no brainer. Superchager network is a big deal as well.

For me, the Model 3 is the next step.

Dan

 

[voip-ninja]

I have been driving a Volt for 4 years now and love it. It has done everything Chevy said it would. That being said it is not even close to being a Model 3 nor is the Bolt...at least not in my eyes. First off the Bolt is ugly, I mean REALLY ugly. Totally a personal thing but, well, there you go. Secondly, the technology isn't even close and with the ability for over the air updates it makes it a no brainer. Superchager network is a big deal as well.

For me, the Model 3 is the next step.

Dan

For me, personally, I wouldn't consider the Bolt. I like sports sedans and had considered the Model S but it was too big of a car for me personally and priced the way I would like, was about $20K more than I was comfortable spending on a daily driver.

However, the title of this thread is just ridiculous. Competition is good for everyone and the amount of buzz the Model 3 reveal generated can only help Chevy who will have their car available for 12+ months before Elon does. I expect a decent number of pre-orders who are interested in the Model 3 primarily for cost/economy/environmental reasons to bail on it and get a Bolt once they are sitting at dealership lots.

 

[Topher]

and then pay a non-negotiable price for it.

I want to pay a non-negotiable price. The Bolt has a non-negotiable price as well. That is the price below which the dealer won't sell the car. The dealer then adds a couple of thousand dollars on top of that price, and plays a game with you to see how much you can get him to knock off. A game he plays 20 times a day and you play once every few years. If he told you the non-negoitable price, how many thousand dollars more would you pay if he beat you at checkers? It is a classic play-to-your-ego scam.

The Tesla dealer has no opportunities to sell me 'undercoating', extended warranty packages, glass insurance or any of those other scams common in car dealerships. I pick options, alone in my house, free from coercion, at my leisure, with full access to my budgetary figures. Then that is the price I pay. Done. I don't feel a need to pay a dealer hundreds of dollars, to boost my ego by telling me that I got a good deal out of him. Especially as that isn't hard; he tells that to everyone.

Thank you kindly.

 

[voip-ninja]

I want to pay a non-negotiable price. The Bolt has a non-negotiable price as well. That is the price below which the dealer won't sell the car. The dealer then adds a couple of thousand dollars on top of that price, and plays a game with you to see how much you can get him to knock off. A game he plays 20 times a day and you play once every few years. If he told you the non-negoitable price, how many thousand dollars more would you pay if he beat you at checkers? It is a classic play-to-your-ego scam.

The Tesla dealer has no opportunities to sell me 'undercoating', extended warranty packages, glass insurance or any of those other scams common in car dealerships. I pick options, alone in my house, free from coercion, at my leisure, with full access to my budgetary figures. Then that is the price I pay. Done. I don't feel a need to pay a dealer hundreds of dollars, to boost my ego by telling me that I got a good deal out of him. Especially as that isn't hard; he tells that to everyone.

Thank you kindly.

Well, you are mistaken. Tesla has better margins than other manufacturers which just means you are paying them more money than you are paying another auto-maker who has a dealer network willing to sacrifice some of that profit to make the sale.

 

[bonnie]

Well, you are mistaken. Tesla has better margins than other manufacturers which just means you are paying them more money than you are paying another auto-maker who has a dealer network willing to sacrifice some of that profit to make the sale.

Tesla has better margins? Source?

Christie and Tesla

So the dealers’ actual argument is that without the restrictions, cars would be substantially less expensive for consumers, because they wouldn’t need to pay the middle man anymore.

How much less expensive might they be? In 2000, an in-depth analysis by Goldman Sachs concluded that selling cars directly to consumers would knock nearly 10 percent off the cost of an average car–a savings of $2,225 for a $26,000 vehicle. Others peg the cost of distribution through dealerships as up to 15 percent of the vehicles’ price.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

The dealer experience just sucks...no getting around it. Yes, some are better than others. Americans love to feel like they got something for nothing I guess, hence this addiction to middle men haggling. I would much rather see what I want, see how much it costs, and then make a decision as to whether I want it or not. The hassle and high pressure BS has sent me running for the door on more than one occasion.

Dan

 

[voip-ninja]

The dealer experience just sucks...no getting around it. Yes, some are better than others. Americans love to feel like they got something for nothing I guess, hence this addiction to middle men haggling. I would much rather see what I want, see how much it costs, and then make a decision as to whether I want it or not. The hassle and high pressure BS has sent me running for the door on more than one occasion.

Dan

American's are among the world's worst negotiators. In many other countries people haggle over EVERYTHING from the price of a new television to the food they buy at the market.

The one area where Americans show an interest in negotiating is cars... which is kind of hilarious because when you amortize it out saving a couple thousand $ on the purchase of a car is really a drop in the bucket compared to everything else we spend our paychecks on.

Now, I'm a decent negotiator so I usually benefit more from the dealer network than someone who pays full MSRP for a car. I typically deduct 7-10% from what the MSRP on a car is, because that's usually what I can get off due to a combination of haggling and manufacturer incentives.

Tesla is a "one price" shop. Apple tried that too and it worked for a while, until they had enough competition that even they were forced to allow pretty heavy discounting through some of their retail channel partners (yes, even Apple has a 'dealer network').

 

[McRat]

I have been driving a Volt for 4 years now and love it. It has done everything Chevy said it would. That being said it is not even close to being a Model 3 nor is the Bolt...at least not in my eyes. First off the Bolt is ugly, I mean REALLY ugly. Totally a personal thing but, well, there you go. Secondly, the technology isn't even close and with the ability for over the air updates it makes it a no brainer. Superchager network is a big deal as well.

For me, the Model 3 is the next step.

Dan

My kid's Volts are way, way better than the Bolt, the Model 3, and the 2018 Ferrari.

They are even better than the 2030 Porsche 911 Turbo.

And far and away better than the 2105 Aston Martin.

Low unit cost, low insurance, low repair costs, plenty of service outlets, and small size for school parking lots. They can travel anywhere, anytime with no range anxiety, and I can monitor their activities away from home. If they crash, the car calls for help automagically. And? They run on electricity virtually all the time. 3000 miles per fill up, no remote charging ever needed. Superchargers? Yeah, I have one under the hood I carry with me, I stop when I feel like it, my cars do not demand when I drive or where I drive.

 

[Topher]

Well, you are mistaken. Tesla has better margins than other manufacturers which just means you are paying them more money

Really? So they are hugely profitable? No? they are putting that money into FREE superchargers. And battery factories.

paying another auto-maker who has a dealer network willing to sacrifice some of that profit to make the sale.

There is no such thing. The car company got their profit when they sold the car to the dealer. The dealer, well, that is them lying to you to boost your ego that you 'got a good deal!' 'below wholesale!'. Sorry.

Thank you kindly.

 

[voip-ninja]

Really? So they are hugely profitable? No? they are putting that money into FREE superchargers. And battery factories.



There is no such thing. The car company got their profit when they sold the car to the dealer. The dealer, well, that is them lying to you to boost your ego that you 'got a good deal!' 'below wholesale!'. Sorry.

Thank you kindly.

Most manufacturers are lucky to sell their wares to the dealership at a 6% gross margin, that's the industry average. If Tesla chooses to sell their cars at a 15% profit (reserving what is normally dealer profit for themselves) that is their choice to make. If they then also choose to not negotiate that price with you the consumer, where-as you could negotiate final price with a dealer, then you lose if you are a good negotiator.

I was in sales for 7 years, so please don't lecture me about how I'm getting lied to and taken advantage of by the dealer. When I leave we are both happy, they made a sale (and hit their numbers for things like incentives & dealer holdback) and I'm happy because I paid about $500 over their invoice price for the car, or in some cases less.

 

[Jeff N]

First off the Bolt is ugly, I mean REALLY ugly.

Really? Sure, it's a personal and subjective issue.

I find the Bolt EV to be rather average in appearance. I think it's most challenged area is the front "grill" which reminds me of the large grill on the recent Toyota Camry design. Many car makers have gotten carried away with gigantic grill openings. Tesla has gone with the opposite extreme lately with its flat blank and unadorned snout on the Model 3 prototypes.

Whatever... I will happily be seen in either car.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

My kid's Volts are way, way better than the Bolt, the Model 3, and the 2018 Ferrari.

They are even better than the 2030 Porsche 911 Turbo.

And far and away better than the 2105 Aston Martin.

Low unit cost, low insurance, low repair costs, plenty of service outlets, and small size for school parking lots. They can travel anywhere, anytime with no range anxiety, and I can monitor their activities away from home. If they crash, the car calls for help automagically. And? They run on electricity virtually all the time. 3000 miles per fill up, no remote charging ever needed. Superchargers? Yeah, I have one under the hood I carry with me, I stop when I feel like it, my cars do not demand when I drive or where I drive.

Each to his/her own. I agree that the car has been great as I stated. It has obviously served, and continues to serve your needs. Not mine. Enjoy your Volt...I will look forward to my Model 3.

Dan

 

[Topher]

Most manufacturers are lucky to sell their wares to the dealership at a 6% gross margin, that's the industry average. If Tesla chooses to sell their cars at a 15% profit (reserving what is normally dealer profit for themselves) that is their choice to make. If they then also choose to not negotiate that price with you the consumer, where-as you could negotiate final price with a dealer, then you lose if you are a good negotiator.

I was in sales for 7 years, so please don't lecture me about how I'm getting lied to and taken advantage of by the dealer. When I leave we are both happy, they made a sale (and hit their numbers for things like incentives & dealer holdback) and I'm happy because I paid about $500 over their invoice price for the car, or in some cases less.

So even you think that Americans would be better off buying via the Tesla model. Even with them taking huge profits (which you haven't shown).

Their invoice, of course, not counting incentives and dealer holdbacks... Another lie sadly. Dealers don't pay dealer invoice.

The bottom line is that the Model ≡ is a better car at a cheaper price. I and all the other 'bad negotiators' don't need to argue the dealer down $2,500 to get that better car at $35,000.

Thank you kindly.

p.s. I do apologize for addressing all this at you, nothing personal, I am just trying to help that majority of Americans who can't negotiate; no need for 'dislikes'

 

[McRat]

Each to his/her own. I agree that the car has been great as I stated. It has obviously served, and continues to serve your needs. Not mine. Enjoy your Volt...I will look forward to my Model 3.

Dan

Maybe you will, maybe you won't. My point was that the Model 3 and Bolt are not in the wild. Nobody has a clue what the actual retail cars are all about.

Nobody today, not Musk, not Barra, know what will be sold or by who on January 1st, 2018. How many players? What new technologies? What form factors? How many models? What retail prices? Where will ICE be? What will the worldwide DCFC grid look like?

The constant stream of "facts" about future automotive technology is amazing. Never in the history of transportation has everybody been so sure of the future. Last time it was like this was in the early 1960's. We would have atomic powered kitchens, but our flying cars would be run off petroleum. Our vacations to other planets would be based on chemical rockets.

 

[beeeerock]

OK, Mary and her pet project, she is wearing high heels, the car is shod with 25.5" dia tires:

View attachment 173986

I guess she must have done a deal with Tesla for the liquid cooled cable technology... that's one impressive piece of string plugged into that car...

 

[S'toon]

Americans hate car shopping so much they'd rather give up sex and do taxes

Okay America, this has gotten silly. A new study by Edmunds has revealed what we've always kind of known – people don't like going car shopping. What we didn't realize, though, is why, and what they'd rather do (or not do) to avoid a trip to the dealer.

Really, it comes down to the haggle. According to Edmunds, 83 percent of the 1,002 people surveyed would rather avoid haggling, with nine out of 10 saying they'd be more excited about the car-buying process if it meant a haggle-free experience (Saturn, you were on to something).

What's ridiculous, though, is just how much people hate the haggle. One in five said they'd willingly give up sex for a month rather than haggle for a new car. Another 44 percent said they'd be willing to give up Facebook while 29 percent would happily turn over their cell phones for a weekend to avoid sitting down with a dealer.

Even more worrying, though, are the number of people that'd simply prefer to avoid the car-buying experience all together. One in three people surveyed said they'd rather do taxes, go to the DMV or sit in an airplane's middle seat if it meant not having to go through the purchasing rigmarole...

<snip>

Americans hate car shopping so much they'd rather give up sex and do taxes

 

[McRat]

I guess she must have done a deal with Tesla for the liquid cooled cable technology... that's one impressive piece of string plugged into that car...

Uh.... That's the OEM portable EVSE.

Liquid cooled high amp AC/DC cabling is old school. It's used for welding for a very long time. Not sure how you'd patent that.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Maybe you will, maybe you won't.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that I will most definitely look forward to my Model 3! That being said, I understand your point. At this stage in the game it is all speculation. The possibilities are without a doubt exciting though

 

[McRat]

Oh, I'm pretty sure that I will most definitely look forward to my Model 3! That being said, I understand your point. At this stage in the game it is all speculation. The possibilities are without a doubt exciting though

I agree with that. I'm reserving a "dream" at this point, basically crowd-funding what I believe is a great concept.

But I'm not judging cars from the marketing.

 

[BluestarE3]

OK, Mary and her pet project, she is wearing high heels, the car is shod with 25.5" dia tires:

View attachment 173986

"Mary Barra, what is going through your mind right now?"

My feet are killing me! Why am I wearing these stupid heels? I'm an engineer, so I should know better. I'm the friggin' CEO, for heavens sake, so I shouldn't have to. But nooooo, the PR guys said I need the heels to project a "softer" image in public. What a load of crock! I bet Ginni Rometty never has to wear stillettos. If they needed to "pretty up" something, they should have done it for this car I'm standing next to.