MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[Steen2000]

Is it correct to conclude from this that LFP batteries have almost no degeneration (compared to LR batteries)
Asking as owner of e3dl LR battery (as AAKEE knows after all our correspondance )

Degradation

teslalogger.de

Over time then a SR+ / RWD with LFP would have same range as a LR ?

Personally for my LR e3dl I plan to follow AAKEE's rules of thumbs and stay between 25-57% unless I need more (and keep it relatively low at night)

 

[AAKEE]

Is it correct to conclude from this that LFP batteries have almost no degeneration (compared to LR batteries)
Asking as owner of e3dl LR battery (as AAKEE knows after all our correspondance )

Degradation

teslalogger.de

Over time then a SR+ / RWD with LFP would have same range as a LR ?

Personally for my LR e3dl I plan to follow AAKEE's rules of thumbs and stay between 25-57% unless I need more (and keep it relatively low at night)

Theres two LFP types at Teslalogger.de, one(2021 SR+ LFP seems very rigid in range, the other look about the same as the classic versions.
I havent studied that much about latest LFP so I do not know.

 

[Apprunner]

Well it seems to change, but not as it should. This setting has a bug so perhaps try another wheel from the menue if needed. The setting is supposed to adjust the consumption calculation so the navigation is more accurate.

So if I pick Uberturbines and I have an 18 inch wheel, my wh/mi calc should be higher than it displays? Or should it even change the wh/mi calc?

 

[Bouba]

There's an article in Electrek today saying that Tesla has installed battery packs/cells as old as 2017 in some 2021 Model 3s. WTF?

Tesla says it has put 2017 battery packs in brand new 2021 cars in strange warning

Tesla has been adding a strange new warning about putting battery packs as old as 2017 in brand new 2021...

electrek.co

The headline is distressing but the article itself doesn’t quite live up to its headline. The examples in the article are for ex demo cars with some mileage (about 1500 miles). There is a warning that they may not have the same range as when new. Seems reasonable. The headline seems to say that new cars have old batteries but the impression I get is that Tesla are selling a lot of their used stock, so perhaps they mean that a 2017 battery will be found in a 2017 car...

 

[panpan1]

The headline is distressing but the article itself doesn’t quite live up to its headline. The examples in the article are for ex demo cars with some mileage (about 1500 miles). There is a warning that they may not have the same range as when new. Seems reasonable. The headline seems to say that new cars have old batteries but the impression I get is that Tesla are selling a lot of their used stock, so perhaps they mean that a 2017 battery will be found in a 2017 car...

That isn't how I read it. Yes, the examples are demo cars, but they are 2021 demos. This is the very first sentence: Tesla has been adding a strange new warning about putting battery packs as old as 2017 in brand new 2021 Model 3 vehicles for sale.

 

[Bouba]

That isn't how I read it. Yes, the examples are demo cars, but they are 2021 demos. This is the very first sentence: Tesla has been adding a strange new warning about putting battery packs as old as 2017 in brand new 2021 Model 3 vehicles for sale.

I suppose if he is getting rid of cars that are demos or used as loaners and general shop duties then it’s possible that the vehicles are various ages. Also that some cars will not be in perfect condition for sale so parts will be scrounged off other cars....so yes it’s possible that a 2021 chassis has some older parts...but they are not sold to deceive

 

[Matt3M3]

Hello guys I was reading you and I want to update about my M3 LR oct 21 LG E5DL! I started with full pack when new at 78.8 and now after 3k km I have 78.00. So
I think far from the hight Level I read here (up to 79.x) from some users… so I have “lost” 0.8 in 1 month and 3km km. What do you think about?

 

[AAKEE]

Hello guys I was reading you and I want to update about my M3 LR oct 21 LG E5DL! I started with full pack when new at 78.8 and now after 3k km I have 78.00. So
I think far from the hight Level I read here (up to 79.x) from some users… so I have “lost” 0.8 in 1 month and 3km km. What do you think about?

What was your Nominal Full Pack(NFP) when the car was new? In most cases it is not exactly the same as the ”Full Pack When New”.
If you did not check the NFP when it was new, it might even have shown a lower value than 78kWh.

Its too early to use the BMS estimates as they both go up and down and can vary more than 0.8 during a month.

You need to wait until the car is 6 months or so before you can be sure of a NFP trend.

The LG batteries are NMC, and from the research I have seen they are at least as sensitive as the regular Panasonic NCA to calendar aging.
I would not keep a higher SOC than I need with the LG batteries( 5C and 5L). Time will tell, but until we know more I would stay low on SOC.

I have used the ”stay low” with my M3P, and i still have full range after one year and 30.000km. Lowest range I did see was less than 1% from full.

 

[Steen2000]

You need to wait until the car is 6 months or so before you can be sure of a NFP trend.

Probably discussed a zillion times, but how do you actually do these measures?
I have no clue. Does it require some equipment or do you just go to the screen and "Do something"? But wouldn't the range then be higlhy impacted by the temperature in the period you do it?

 

[Matt3M3]

What was your Nominal Full Pack(NFP) when the car was new? In most cases it is not exactly the same as the ”Full Pack When New”.
If you did not check the NFP when it was new, it might even have shown a lower value than 78kWh.

Its too early to use the BMS estimates as they both go up and down and can vary more than 0.8 during a month.

You need to wait until the car is 6 months or so before you can be sure of a NFP trend.

The LG batteries are NMC, and from the research I have seen they are at least as sensitive as the regular Panasonic NCA to calendar aging.
I would not keep a higher SOC than I need with the LG batteries( 5C and 5L). Time will tell, but until we know more I would stay low on SOC.

I have used the ”stay low” with my M3P, and i still have full range after one year and 30.000km. Lowest range I did see was less than 1% from full.

Thanks
I saw the nominal full pack and was 78.8, now is 78 but I agree is too early to understand the trend. We will see it and ill
Update you constantly. For now thanks for your time and your answer

 

[conv90]

Thanks
I saw the nominal full pack and was 78.8, now is 78 but I agree is too early to understand the trend. We will see it and ill
Update you constantly. For now thanks for your time and your answer

You said: " I started with full pack when new at 78.8 " and then: " I saw the nominal full pack and was 78.8"
It's a rare case of Nominal Ful Pack EQUAL to "Full Pack When New" on SMT.

 

[ran349]

For the guys without SMT, if performing the energy screen capacity calc ( average consumption x estimated range/ SOC) changes, so it no longer is valid.

The energy screen should not change by changing the wheel size configuration. That is because it represents the current values for average consumption, estimated range, and SOC. So the calculation of NFP won't change if those values don't change. What should change is the location/position on the screen of the rated miles/km solid line. If the rated line drops, you should see a larger value (km or miles) on the green battery icon. If the rated lines goes higher, then the green battery icon should show less km or miles.

Are you seeing something different than that?

On my model S, I can change my constant by selecting ideal miles instead of rated miles. In that case, it works as I described above. The only thing that changes on the energy screen is the rated miles line location. The green battery value changes, but that isn't used for the NFP calculation.

 

[AAKEE]

The energy screen should not change by changing the wheel size configuration. That is because it represents the current values for average consumption, estimated range, and SOC. So the calculation of NFP won't change if those values don't change. What should change is the location/position on the screen of the rated miles/km solid line. If the rated line drops, you should see a larger value (km or miles) on the green battery icon. If the rated lines goes higher, then the green battery icon should show less km or miles.

Are you seeing something different than that?

On my model S, I can change my constant by selecting ideal miles instead of rated miles. In that case, it works as I described above. The only thing that changes on the energy screen is the rated miles line location. The green battery value changes, but that isn't used for the NFP calculation.

Well it does change, so theres a bug in the software.

 

[AAKEE]

The energy screen should not change

Are you seeing something different than that?

Well, as I said theres at least one bug. Probably more than one.

This is the values as I always use 20ӆberturbines choosen:

And below is with the 18” Aero caps( last time I selected the 18” Aero wheels but the Aero cap 2 setting seem to produce the same issue, or close to). As we can see, the battery “range” decreases, as does the energy screen range. Even the SOC decreases from 36 to 31%. The SOC went back to 36% when changing back to 20” übers.
The typical line is clearly lower i.e lower consumption.

 

[AAKEE]

Probably discussed a zillion times, but how do you actually do these measures?
I have no clue. Does it require some equipment or do you just go to the screen and "Do something"? But wouldn't the range then be higlhy impacted by the temperature in the period you do it?

NFP can be shown with scan my tesla. It connects via a cable and a OBD2 dongle to the CANBUS and this give lot of information.
There’s a lot of information, very much more than this below.
It is nerd level, so maybe not interresting for everyone.

 

[Utking]

I'm down to 67% nominal full pack

 

[Utking]

I'm down to 67% nominal full pack

67kw i mean.

Dropped from 78kw when the car was new, driven for 78k km now. Perfectly charged to 80%, mostly being plugged in as per Tesla's recommendation.
Supercharged once every second month perhaps.

display shows 420km (Bad pun from Tesla?) Was 501 when new

 

[AAKEE]

67kw i mean.

Dropped from 78kw when the car was new, driven for 78k km now. Perfectly charged to 80%, mostly being plugged in as per Tesla's recommendation.
Supercharged once every second month perhaps.

display shows 420km (Bad pun from Tesla?) Was 501 when new

I would say its probably the 80% charging schedule thats a big part of it.

How many miles(km) do you have on it?
How old?
Whats your most normal cycle? Charge to 80%, drive down to what SOC?

Supercharging causes some wear but not that much really, per cycle. Specially if not supercharged to 100%, but to 70-80% or so.
For most users if not doing very big cycles like 100/90 to 10% every day, calendar aging causes the most degradation the first about 3-5 years.

Keeping 80% or 90% SOC for most of the time( for example having a car seldom used) will degrade the battery some 5-6% the first year and reach 7-8% after two years, about 10% after three years and 11-12 after four years. This at moderate temps, without even driving it st all. Higher ambiebt temps = higher degradation. The summer months + 80% outside in the sun take a bite from the battery.

 

[Utking]

I would say its probably the 80% charging schedule thats a big part of it.

How many miles(km) do you have on it?
How old?
Whats your most normal cycle? Charge to 80%, drive down to what SOC?

Supercharging causes some wear but not that much really, per cycle. Specially if not supercharged to 100%, but to 70-80% or so.
For most users if not doing very big cycles like 100/90 to 10% every day, calendar aging causes the most degradation the first about 3-5 years.

Keeping 80% or 90% SOC for most of the time( for example having a car seldom used) will degrade the battery some 5-6% the first year and reach 7-8% after two years, about 10% after three years and 11-12 after four years. This at moderate temps, without even driving it st all. Higher ambiebt temps = higher degradation. The summer months + 80% outside in the sun take a bite from the battery.

Its a 2019 M3P, march build. clocked in about 72k km as of now. And yes i've mostly charged it to 75-80% but i live in Norway. And our average temperature over a year is 42 degree fahrenheit, lol. Although we can see upwards to 80 in the summer this is more rare.

I'm driving it down to around 40-60% each day.

 

[AAKEE]

Its a 2019 M3P, march build. clocked in about 72k km as of now. And yes i've mostly charged it to 75-80% but i live in Norway. And our average temperature over a year is 42 degree fahrenheit, lol. Although we can see upwards to 80 in the summer this is more rare.

I'm driving it down to around 40-60% each day.

Not very big cycles.
When do you charge? In the evening or late night? Is the average SOC during nights high? (Thats my guess).

I charge to about 55% most days.
Daily cycle is down to 25-35 depending on the time if the year.
30100Km

Only one year old, M3P refresh with E3LD.
Still full range!