Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

[Sophias_dad]

Looking for a 10-30R to replace the decades old and cracked Slater one in one of my homes. Looking at one of the Hubbell or Bryant versions ideally, however box the current single gang box in the wall isn’t too deep, is stuffed with wires and seems slightly narrower than it’s current counterparts. Doesn’t seem like Bryant or Hubbell would fit based on width and depth of the current outlets. The depth of the Leviton is great but obviously not the best quality.

Photos of front, back and side of current out along with the box attached.

Recommendations ?



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I can't help you with depth, but that looks like a mud ring and not the actual edges of the box. A few minutes with a dremel tool could make that hole wider. I'm 'shocked' there are other wires in the box, as well. That sort of implies there are other things on this circuit, which is a bad idea for EV charging and also against the rules these days.

If you decide to dremel the mud ring wider, make sure you have a faceplate that will both fit the new receptacle and screw into the current holes of the mud ring you have.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Meh, just get a $6 Utilitech from Lowes. You’re only pulling 24A from it and you know the importance of well-tightened terminal screws from this thread. It’ll be fine.
10-30 is obsolete anyway so there’s no sense in trying to jazz it up. And there’s likely more fire risk from cramming/rerouting all those wires to make room for a huge industrial outlet than there is from simply using a well-installed household grade outlet.

 

[Jeremy3292]

The Utilitech is probably one of the best budget outlets there is IMO

 

[jeremymc7]

Thanks for the recommendations. Looks very similar to what’s been in the wall for 50+ years. Sounds like it’s good enough for my particular case.

I’m not going to have this particular house for more than another few years; so I’m not looking to do a panel swap, sub-panel, or even snake new wires - which several electricians advised against.

Meh, just get a $6 Utilitech from Lowes.

The Utilitech is probably one of the best budget outlets there is IMO

 

[Jeremy3292]

The Bryant 9450FR 14-50 outlet is back in stock at Grainger.

 

[Jeremy3292]

The Bryant 9450FR 14-50 outlet is back in stock at Grainger.

Backordered now. That was quick.

 

[jeremymc7]

What was the pricing ?

 

[ElectricNerd]

Got the Bryant 14-50 receptacle in and for some reason the Grizzl-E charger does not like it. It blinks one red and beeps, and according to the manual it’s “Lost ground - AC line 1”

It works just fine with the Leviton 14-50 outlet. I’m on my second Bryant trying to get this to work, same issue. I’ve verified that I have good connection on all 4 wires.

 

[ElectricNerd]

Got the Bryant 14-50 receptacle in and for some reason the Grizzl-E charger does not like it. It blinks one red and beeps, and according to the manual it’s “Lost ground - AC line 1”

It works just fine with the Leviton 14-50 outlet. I’m on my second Bryant trying to get this to work, same issue. I’ve verified that I have good connection on all 4 wires.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

It looks like your ground wire might not be up to code. It should be AWG 10 but looks like maybe AWG 14 in your pic. Perhaps it's too small for the Bryant to clamp onto?

 

[ElectricNerd]

It looks like your ground wire might not be up to code. It should be AWG 10 but looks like maybe AWG 14 in your pic. Perhaps it's too small for the Bryant to clamp onto?

It clamps in tight there as I have the set screw all the way tightened and the wire is snug. I have thought about that ground wire being too small being the issue. I guess the residential grade one (it’s a Legrand, not a Leviton like I thought) doesn’t mind the ground wire being that. I even tried the Tesla charger and it kept giving an error so I know it’s not the EV charger.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Are you sure you're getting all the wires in the right order? There's a considerable difference in how the wires enter the Leviton vs. Bryant so perhaps there's a mixup occurring?

 

[ElectricNerd]

Are you sure you're getting all the wires in the right order? There's a considerable difference in how the wires enter the Leviton vs. Bryant so perhaps there's a mixup occurring?

Would that be the same for the Legrand? I misspoke when I said it was a Leviton.

 

[ElectricNerd]

Are you sure you're getting all the wires in the right order? There's a considerable difference in how the wires enter the Leviton vs. Bryant so perhaps there's a mixup occurring?

On the Bryant I have to install it upside down (ground at the bottom) due to my charger plug. The neutral/white is at the top and I have the black on the left and red on the right. This is identical to how the the Legrand is.

 

[stopcrazypp]

On the Bryant I have to install it upside down (ground at the bottom) due to my charger plug. The neutral/white is at the top and I have the black on the left and red on the right. This is identical to how the the Legrand is.

The only other difference I can think of is the Bryant is considerably thicker (looking at pictures). Perhaps the connection gets loose when it is in the box? With safety precautions taken (only for short testing only), does it work when it's out of the box?

Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

The other idea is to have a grounding pigtail (basically a wire that is installed onto the receptacle and then you wirenut it to your ground wire). You can buy 10AWG wire by the foot in a lot of home improvement stores. This is commonly done in a lot of cases (usually for grounding to metal boxes). But keep in in mind your wire is too thin according to code, if it really is less than 10 AWG.

According to the spec sheet, the Bryant is rated for:
"Terminal Accommodation - #10 AWG through #4 AWG copper"
https://hciapps.hubbell.com/hcipunchout/LiteraturePDFS/3B/Original_BSS57.pdf

So it may not work well with wire sizes smaller than that.

 

[ElectricNerd]

The only other difference I can think of is the Bryant is considerably thicker (looking at pictures). Perhaps the connection gets loose when it is in the box? With safety precautions taken (only for short testing only), does it work when it's out of the box?

Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

The other idea is to have a grounding pigtail (basically a wire that is installed onto the receptacle and then you wirenut it to your ground wire). You can buy 10AWG wire by the foot in a lot of home improvement stores. This is commonly done in a lot of cases (usually for grounding to metal boxes). But keep in in mind your wire is too thin according to code, if it really is less than 10 AWG.

According to the spec sheet, the Bryant is rated for:
"Terminal Accommodation - #10 AWG through #4 AWG copper"
https://hciapps.hubbell.com/hcipunchout/LiteraturePDFS/3B/Original_BSS57.pdf

So it may not work well with wire sizes smaller than that.

I bet that’s it. It doesn’t work even when I have the outlet hanging after tightening the wires in the terminal. I just took my wire stripper out and guarantee that the ground wire is smaller than 10AWG. The electrician used 6/3 wiring. So all I need is to get a pigtail of 10AWG for the ground and I’ll be good to go? Will I be violating any kind of code by doing so?

 

[MLXXXp]

It doesn’t work even when I have the outlet hanging after tightening the wires in the terminal.

Try folding the ground wire once or twice at the end to make the last half inch, that goes in the socket, thicker. This should give you a good connection.

The current capability of the ground wire isn't important (for testing) as long as the hot wires (red and black) are properly connected. With a properly operating circuit, no significant current will flow through the ground wire. (The Grizzl-E may run a very small current through ground once or occasionally to test for a ground fault.)

If doing this, to make a solid ground connection, works, you should still then upgrade the ground wire over it's entire length to meet code (10 or 8 guage?) for safety.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I bet that’s it. It doesn’t work even when I have the outlet hanging after tightening the wires in the terminal. I just took my wire stripper out and guarantee that the ground wire is smaller than 10AWG. The electrician used 6/3 wiring. So all I need is to get a pigtail of 10AWG for the ground and I’ll be good to go? Will I be violating any kind of code by doing so?

6/3 wiring should come with a 10 AWG ground. Not sure why it would be different in your's.

Pigtails are allowed under code and sometimes even required if the box needs to be grounded (although I'm not familiar enough to know if plastic boxes changes anything), but if the ground wire really is not 10 AWG or larger then that would be the primary source of any code violation, not the pigtail itself.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Try folding the ground wire once or twice at the end to make the last half inch, that goes in the socket, thicker. This should give you a good connection.

That's a good idea I didn't think of. Certainly worth a try as it doesn't require a trip to the store and more parts.

 

[MLXXXp]

6/3 wiring should come with a 10 AWG ground.

Actually all of the NMD90 6/3 wire I've found has an 8 AWG ground (bonding) wire.

https://northerncables.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/plain-NMD-r1.pdf