MCU1 S Owners: Logic FOR/AGAINST Tesla's $2,500 "Infotainment Upgrade"? (Not required for FSD)

[whitex]

"FSD functionality" is handled by the Autopilot (FSD) computer (APE). It describes the scope of software control over the driving of the vehicle.

Fancy "eye candy" visualizations are not part of "FSD functionality". They are simply virtual representations of what the APE is doing, and are solely there to give users warm fuzzy feelings about how well it is doing its job of seeing and interpreting the world around it. If you are watching these virtual representations while driving instead watching through the windshield, you are a hazard to everyone else.

I disagree. As long as the driver is responsible for monitoring of what FSD does, the visualizations are a necessary tool for monitoring, so the driver knows what FSD is aware of and what it missed. If FSD planned path shows that it's planning to plow into a fire truck, should MCU1 driver just assume it knows the fire truck is there (and will therefore brake in time) but just couldn't visualize it? The only way to test that is to let it hit the fire truck, or brake just in time.

 

[MP3Mike]

Are 2.5 cameras color like HW3 or are they the same as 2.0.

As far as we know there are no HW3 cameras. There are AP2 and AP2.5 cameras.

 

[SucreTease]

I disagree. As long as the driver is responsible for monitoring of what FSD does, the visualizations are a necessary tool for monitoring, so the driver knows what FSD is aware of and what it missed. If FSD planned path shows that it's planning to plow into a fire truck, should MCU1 driver just assume it knows the fire truck is there (and will therefore brake in time) but just couldn't visualize it? The only way to test that is to let it hit the fire truck, or brake just in time.

You might not have thought of this yet, but if you look out of the windshield, in turns out that you, yourself, can actually see the firetruck that you are approaching, and turn or break in time to avoid the collision! That method actually works without even having to look at the display. Try it next time and you will see that I am right.

 

[whitex]

You might not have thought of this yet, but if you look out of the windshield, in turns out that you, yourself, can actually see the firetruck that you are approaching, and turn or break in time to avoid the collision! That method actually works without even having to look at the display. Try it next time and you will see that I am right.

You are not right. The point of the visualization is to that the driver can abort FSD if FSD is not seeing what it's supposed to be seeing, or seeing something that is not really there, and to inform the driver which way the car is going to go. With visualizations the driver has a lot more warning that something bad is going to happen. Without visualization you'd have to wait until the very last second to brake because maybe FSD does see it and will brake in time. Same about lanes, if you don't know whether the car sees the lanes, you can't tell if it's just moving over to the side of the lane or has it lost the lane markings and it's about to cross to opposing traffic. In autonomous community "visualizations" are often referred to as "confidence view" and are considered a vital part of antonymous systems, especially ones that need to be supervised in real time by humans. They add to safety of the systems.

 

[fair.child]

I am really curious to know. Is it really worth to upgrade 2016 Model S MCU1 with AP1 to MCU2?

 

[whitex]

I am really curious to know. Is it really worth to upgrade 2016 Model S MCU1 with AP1 to MCU2?

Only you can answer that, "worth" is always relative "to whom". If Netflix in the car is worth $2,500 to you, then it's worth it right there. If not, how much is it worth? Add up the value (to you) for each feature you gain, subtract the value of FM/XM tuner, and see if it's greater than or less than $2,500+tax.

 

[houstonian]

I am really curious to know. Is it really worth to upgrade 2016 Model S MCU1 with AP1 to MCU2?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

FWIW ~10% of poll respondents indicated they WOULD upgrade immediately WITHOUT the FSD package. An additional 16% indicated they WOULD upgrade WITHOUT the FSD package ONLY when their existing MCU1 broke suggesting about 25% of poll respondents, without FSD, would consider upgrading at some point in time even if they will not - or could not - add the FSD package.

Perhaps the best angle to view the issue from is how long do you plan on keeping the car? The longer you plan on keeping it, the stronger the argument for the upgrade becomes IMHO.

 

[CraigE1965]

For a FSD AP 2.5 MCU1 vehicle, what vizualizations will we be missing? Nowhere does it say them.
Right now I see vizualizations like lanes, other cars, trucks, ect. Not stop signs or red lights yet, but isn't that what HW3.0 board does? I just want to know what difference MCU2 will see then MCU1?

 

[whitex]

FWIW ~10% of poll respondents indicated they WOULD upgrade immediately WITHOUT the FSD package. An additional 16% indicated they WOULD upgrade WITHOUT the FSD package ONLY when their existing MCU1 broke suggesting about 25% of poll respondents, without FSD, would consider upgrading at some point in time even if they will not - or could not - add the FSD package.
.

Those 16% of people said they would choose MCU2 over MCU1 if they were forced to pay $2,500 because their MCU1 died. That is not saying $2,500 is worth the upgrade, that is saying that for they'd take the upgrade for $0 (since they'd be paying for a new MCU1 anyways). So only 10% think it's worth $2,500. 16% would take it if it was free (so definitely not worth $2,500).

 

[f205v]

I do not understand why anyone wants to listen to FM, AM or Sirius in this day and age. I have a USB stick with thousands of songs for when the streaming service is not working.

I usually listen to a couple of FM stations, they both have a mix of 50% music 50% talk. They engage the public, you can phone the station and be live to tell your views on the subject.
It's somewhat similar to a moderated internet forum such this one we are writing on now. Only it's done by voice instead of writing.
Both stations are NOT available via streaming; to be precise both have their proprietary streaming app and are not available in any other form.

 

[supratachophobia]

I was in the Columbus Ohio service center today and asked. I was told a new MCU 1 replacement is $1,800 and a replacement with a refurbished MCU 1 unit is $1,300.

Don't forget the $500 labor on top of that they quoted another owner last week, from the same Columbus, Ohio service center.....

 

[supratachophobia]

Thank you all who replied and responded to the poll.

Agreed.

However, I am not planning on giving my old MCU1 when it is replaced. Suggest other users do the same as all MCU1s have a drop-dead date meaning there will be a market for those who need an MCU but do not want to pay $2.5k for MCU2...or just refuse to realize MCU2 killed the A/F/XM radio star.

Either way I suggest owners remember they own their MCU1 and when they buy - not SWAP - their new MCU2, to request their MCU1 back. After all, it's theirs not TSLA's, and fair is fair.

As far as the "fairness" of TSLA charging $2.5k, my take is they are offering additional features that were not promised or implied when I purchased the car and required a hardware upgrade to support, specifically dashcam and sentry. That's worth something for me and I suspect it's worth something for other owners too.

I do think TSLA is aware of a potential class-action with the emmc defect and by offering the Infotainment Upgrade, they solve many problems in a way where most walk away with something more.

1. They replace the old MCUs (would have to be done anyway),
2. They put in a superior product (I'd be pissed if I had to replace a blown emmc chip with another MCU1),
3. New hard and soft consumer features enabled (dashcam, games, etc.)
4. New TSLA background features enabled (more data can be harvested and sent back to TSLA for FSD development vs. what was possible with MCU1)
5. Created the market for upgraded MCU1 customers to resell their old MCU1s to other S/X radio enthusiast​

I would only add the following: I do think TSLA should offer one free goodwill MCU1 > MCU1 swap (and if they can just swap the electronic components and not the entire unit that's fine) for any owner whos emmc dies. An inadequate emmc is a TSLA problem, and TSLA needs to make it right. Offering customers an upgrade path is fine - and something I plan on opting for - but they need to do something for those who prefer to keep what they've got.



@bob_p - assuming a streaming solution for F/XM is not acceptable?

My suggestion then would be to wait. Don't really see any hard downside. If you've got FSD, you'll still get FSD sans "enhanced" visualizations, and you retain direct F/XM on the MCU. If a dashcam is a must, you can opt for a 3rd party solution.

In the interim between now and 2021/2022 TSLA may drop the price of the upgrade, may enable F/XM, or some other unknown factor may arise to change your logic - and if so - you can then make a real-time call.

If your MCU1 dies before then you can then assess if you want to buy a new MCU1 from Tesla, used one from someone who opted for the upgrade and now has no use for their old MCU1, or use a 3rd party to replace the emmc chip.

Of course, if your MCU1 holds out you will have saved $2.5k to apply to the purchase of your new car.

We had an owner here try that and they were told $1000 core charge to keep the old MCU

 

[tranzndance]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

FWIW ~10% of poll respondents indicated they WOULD upgrade immediately WITHOUT the FSD package. An additional 16% indicated they WOULD upgrade WITHOUT the FSD package ONLY when their existing MCU1 broke suggesting about 25% of poll respondents, without FSD, would consider upgrading at some point in time even if they will not - or could not - add the FSD package.

Perhaps the best angle to view the issue from is how long do you plan on keeping the car? The longer you plan on keeping it, the stronger the argument for the upgrade becomes IMHO.

Keeping the car longer could also mean holding out for an upgrade to later iterations of the MCU. I would like to wait, but my MCU is so laggy that I am thankful that Teslas had given us the option to upgrade at this point.

 

[outdoors]

Let's see. Both of our cars out of warranty. Second screen just turned yellow for S. Still waiting on AP3 computers for both. Brow LED's gone. 2nd time for both lights.

I will pass on the Infotainment package. No more $ into my S.

Plus just did 6,000 miles on my 3, and never once watched Netflix or used browser. Must be conditioned from the S. Doesn't work don't use. Back to driving.

 

[bob_p]

I do not understand why anyone wants to listen to FM, AM or Sirius in this day and age. I have a USB stick with thousands of songs for when the streaming service is not working. I would love to have the games, upgraded browser and video streaming options. Count me in.

Brent

Live local and national sports and news are missing from Tesla's built-in streaming apps.

These are available from a combination of streaming apps on smartphones - but because Tesla doesn't provide screen mirroring to access the smartphone interface from the console display, using those apps requires interacting with the smartphone display, which is illegal in many areas while driving.

When the infotainment upgrade announcement was made, I researched using Tesla's streaming apps to access the programs we typically get from FM/HD Radio/XM, and found that the current apps don't support those programs.

 

[Utahken]

Let's see. Both of our cars out of warranty. Second screen just turned yellow for S. Still waiting on AP3 computers for both. Brow LED's gone. 2nd time for both lights.

I will pass on the Infotainment package. No more $ into my S.

Plus just did 6,000 miles on my 3, and never once watched Netflix or used browser. Must be conditioned from the S. Doesn't work don't use. Back to driving.

Is the brow led, the same as the daytime running lights? Those have started to go out on my car too

 

[outdoors]

Is the brow led, the same as the daytime running lights? Those have started to go out on my car too

Yes. Very expensive. 2 replaced under warranty. Now 2 are brow reduced one year later. Takes me back to a day when I stuck my hand inside my hood and replaced a bulb with a new Sylvania one. No service call. No cussing and hair pulling when you see the cost of them.

Just as a question. Will AP2 show sentry videos if I purchase? As in black and white?

Wonder why they called it Infotainment Upgrade? Why not MCU2 upgrade? One would assume that not everyone knows what a MCU is. Or is the MCU not being replaced?

 

[bob_p]

You have made two false claims here:

1. That you know something about Tesla's internal decisions.
2. That "FSD functionality" is handled by the MCU.

"FSD functionality" is handled by the Autopilot (FSD) computer (APE). It describes the scope of software control over the driving of the vehicle.

Fancy "eye candy" visualizations are not part of "FSD functionality". They are simply virtual representations of what the APE is doing, and are solely there to give users warm fuzzy feelings about how well it is doing its job of seeing and interpreting the world around it. If you are watching these virtual representations while driving instead watching through the windshield, you are a hazard to everyone else.

Based on the specifications of the MCU1 processor, it is capable of running a lot of the features that are currently only on MCU2 - especially when those features (video) are done while the vehicle is parked and the MCU isn't being tasked to do anything else. The MCU 1's nVidia Tegra 3 processor can support video streaming.

From a software perspective, it's understandable Tesla doesn't want to invest a lot of resources in continuing to implement new features on the MCU1 processor. Backwards compatibility is always a challenge - and most vendors typically start phasing out new development on old systems after a few years (Samsung recently announced they'll only provide Android upgrades for two years for their new Galaxy S20 phones). The last MCU1 vehicle was built 2 years ago.

Visualization and the user interface is part of the FSD functionality - especially when the system is operating in "driver assistance" mode, when the driver has the responsibility to monitor how the system is operating, the visualization is important to verify the FSD system is properly detecting everything (such as an upcoming stop light/stop sign). We're likely to see the FSD software running in "driver assistance" mode for years before Tesla is able to (if ever) get approval to operate AP2/AP2.5 vehicles without a driver.

The MCU1 processors for the console and dashboard displays should be more than capable of displaying the improved visuals (adding traffic lights/signs, intersection lines, traffic cones). Instead of allocating a few software developers to add these features on MCU1, they are asking owners to pay an additional $2500 so they'll get the same FSD experience as MCU2/FSD vehicles.

 

[Utahken]

Yes. Very expensive. 2 replaced under warranty. Now 2 are brow reduced one year later. Takes me back to a day when I stuck my hand inside my hood and replaced a bulb with a new Sylvania one. No service call. No cussing and hair pulling when you see the cost of them.

Just as a question. Will AP2 show sentry videos if I purchase? As in black and white?

Wonder why they called it Infotainment Upgrade? Why not MCU2 upgrade? One would assume that not everyone knows what a MCU is. Or is the MCU not being replaced?

Hope this answers your first question

green on Twitter

 

[Black Krack]

1st post in the club.

Do we think this may be how Tesla gets those grandfathered in with the premium connectivity to pay to give it up? That's my fear... Dropping $2500 then having to pay a monthly fee for those apps and features.


On the plus side will this upgrade give those with 3g the LTE data?